Informe PNUD 2008

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by Squat

As long as Hispaniola will be shared by Dominicans & Haitians, both sides of this island will be heavily corrupt.

I don't subscribe to this. I don't subscribe to 'it'll never change' - it jolly well has to and we (expats) have to make ourselves active in the change effort. I think NOW is the time for less corruption and more equitable distribution of power (not unrealistic enough to expect 100% corruption free but a clear start to be made). The Government basically has two choices - they can either have it done the peaceful way 'mobilising for empowerment' as the Report says or...........there's the other alternative. And that would kill off investment stone cold.

Everyone, educated thinking Dominicans and expats alike, knows what is wrong - well so do less educated people as well! And in response to Miguel Spencer I think those of us expats who have a sense of committment to our adopted motherland have an obligation to engage in the work of empowerment. We have had the advantage of a good education & we have skills in social analysis. Consciousness-raising, writing, speaking at Junta de Vecinos meetings, volunteer teaching, supporting organisations which are pushing for peaceful change..............whatever it takes. Active community involvement in whichever way our skills and talents best befit us.

It isn't enough to sit back & say 'not our country' 'it won't change' 'ok for us, most of us have enough money to play the system'. If that is where we stand then we (expats) are among the ranks of the exploiters.

K. I'll step down off the soapbox and thank you for listening.

[A.Hidalgo]

Sometimes I get this feeling that some gringos, expats what have you, would love to exile Dominicans from their own country so that they can have it all.......ah yes paradise, of course sirvientas are exempt....

[Chip]

Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo

Sometimes I get this feeling that some gringos, expats what have you, would love to exile Dominicans from their own country so that they can have it all.......ah yes paradise, of course sirvientas are exempt....

Heck, if all the Dominicans are exiled, I'll be left behind with a whole bunch of white, fat, ugly and old gringos like myself - not a pretty picture.

[cobraboy]

Why didn't Ministers attend?

IMO, as I've stated several times before, nobody wants to be told by a bunch of outsiders how screwed up they are, and how the outsiders know best how to fix their problems. This is especially true if the outsiders don't bring a "camione de la basura" full of money with the solutions.

The report would be just as accurate if it had simply stated, as the solution,
"change the culture and political systems 180 degrees, become Switzerland".

The DR is what it is. It will change when it's native population wants it to change, and not when the outsiders (I am one) tell them to.

[Dolores]

The United Nations Development Report was written by an exclusively Dominican staff. The organization does not use foreign consultants because it acknowledges that natives know what their problems are.

The report seeks to wake Dominicans up to the peril of delegating the development of the nation to politicians that are clearly in it for their self interest.

It will be interesting to see if it will have any effect on the Fernandez administration, especially at a time when clientelism is at a rise and when government costs could surge even more to accommodate in the nation's budget all the people that feel they contributed to keeping Fernandez in power. It is at least a call for Dominicans not to be so complacent and accepting.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Dolores

The United Nations Development Report was written by an exclusively Dominican staff. The organization does not use foreign consultants because it acknowledges that natives know what their problems are.

The report seeks to wake Dominicans up to the peril of delegating the development of the nation to politicians that are clearly in it for their self interest.

It will be interesting to see if it will have any effect on the Fernandez administration, especially at a time when clientelism is at a rise and when government costs could surge even more to accommodate in the nation's budget all the people that feel they contributed to keeping Fernandez in power. It is at least a call for Dominicans not to be so complacent and accepting.

The UN are "outsiders" regardless as to who wrote the report.

The people and gubmint know exactly what is "wrong". But there is obviously no political will to change it.

When the will is there, things may change.

[Dolores]

That is exactly the point. The report stresses that the government will not change spontaneously. The people have to pressure it to change.

There are already some movements to empower people. The National Competitiveness Council for years has been working on grouping people in clusters. The clusters work from bottom up. They identify their problems and seek to find their solutions and push so that government does not side track them.

The clusters movement has had funding from the USAID, IDB and soon European Union. The CNC that heads this effort is a government organization, but run more like a private operation. It is impressive to see there are no "botellas" in that office. It is difficult to empower people, but there are several examples of successful empowerment. Others in the country can look up to these, and say, maybe we can do it also.

So, the empowerment theme has been running through several caring sectors of the country that can be influential. What the UNDP has done is given numbers to make this objective, taking the subjectivity out of it, supporting efforts such as that of the clusters movement. Giving people a ball to run with to see if the people in power can wake up. Note that groups with power are not only the government, also business, religious and social groups, too.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Dolores

Note that groups with power are not only the government, also business, religious and social groups, too.

So that's what? 70-80+% of the population, especially when you factor in the devotion to and influence of the Catholic Church? The top 2 Presidential candidates and their parties THRIVE on clientelism, and they got around 94% of the vote. Even with the turnout, that's a big % of folks who have no problem with the current process.

When THEY want "change" things will change in the way THEY want to "change", not when and how some outside groups say they should.

Note: I am NOT saying things ~shouldn't~ change. I am saying that as a practical matter, I don't see a broad movement ~wanting~ change. Vocal pockets here and there, yes. A broad movement? Hardly a blip on the political screen, certainly not enough to break out the pitchforks among the populace.

Now, if ALL subsidies for food, electricity, fuel, gas, etc. were to be eliminated, THEN you'd see riots in the streets. IMO.

[Squat]

Originally Posted by Dolores

That is exactly the point. The report stresses that the government will not change spontaneously. The people have to pressure it to change.

The government won't change, as it is an image of the people... This is not Switzerland, and it'll never be, sorry Lambada... I understand your point, it is valid, but it is unrealistic. The governments are corrupt here because the people are corrupt. So far, there's simply no way around it...

Acknowledging that fact doesn't mean we want to get rid of both Dominicans and Haitians to have a "fat, bold, whitish gringa-Hispaniola"... It is just unbiased observation...

[Dolores]

Wrong... I have seen lots of subtle change happening. This UNDP Report gives the people who want change an opportunity to push for it.

All may not be lost.