Informe PNUD 2008

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Dolores

Note that groups with power are not only the government, also business, religious and social groups, too.

As an afterthought, I think you left out THE most powerful group in the DR, the one that props up pretty much all the others.

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Dolores

Wrong... I have seen lots of subtle change happening.

That's encouraging. Maybe in another 200 years enough "subtle" changes will have occured to have material impact.

Originally Posted by Dolores

All may not be lost.

All is not lost now. The vast majority of Dominicans seem to accept the status quo to the extent they *haven't* broken out the pitchforks.

I'm pretty sure most Dominicans don't pay much attention to what gringo's say is best for them.

[Squat]

Originally Posted by Dolores

This UNDP Report gives the people who want change an opportunity to push for it.

Those people who want change are a threat to those who don't. So far, the latter are more powerful.

Whenever one of "those who want change" gets a position of power, he suddenly metamorphoses in one of "those who don't want change"... (the syndrome of the Freedom-Fighter turned African dictator, such as Robert Mugabe).

Hence no change ever... (I am not counting subtle changes...)

[Chip]

Dolores

I am very much interested about these "focus" groups and their impact for change. However, I feel the term "empower" maybe somewhat a little strong as to what these groups can affect. Also, the majority of the voting public are already "empowered" to make changes to the government and how it does business vis a vis the democratic process. What they lack is "enlightenment" to realize the power they have.

I'm afraid that until some respectable visible leader (an oxymoron for sure) in Dominican politics addresses the gross abuses and calls for reform little will change. Maybe these groups can cause that to happen, nonetheless please post more links about them.

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by Squat

sorry Lambada... I understand your point, it is valid, but it is unrealistic.

I was told that 47 years ago in UK when I was involved in the early days of the Women's Movement there. That was about empowerment too. We made considerable headway on the empowerment of women in UK - indisputable if you compare then with now. That's why some of us are optimistic - we've been here before.

Miguel Ceara-Hatton, Rosa Cañete Alonso, Adriana Velasco, Fidel Geraldino,
Armando Gil, Pamela Suero, & Sarah Llibre are all Dominican btw. The Advisory board for the report goes across political affiliations also: Alberto Fiallo-Billini, Ana Selman, Bienvenido Álvarez Vega, Domingo Marte, Enrique de
Marchena, Fausto Ruiz, Fernando Rojas, Fidel Santana, Frank Cáceres, Guarocuya Félix, Jacobo Reyes, Jaime David Fernández Mirabal, John Gagain, José Luis Alemán, José Manuel Torres, Juan Bolívar Díaz, Juan Castillo, Luis Manuel Pellerano, Magaly Pineda, Marcos Villamán, Mario Serrano, Max Puig, Milagros Ortiz Bosch, Omar Ramírez, Pablo Tactuk, Pelegrín Castillo, Rafael
Toribio.

If, instead of saying 'won't happen' we all got out there & did our little bit of facilitation, enlightenment call it what you will, change would happen. Movements for the empowerment of African Americans, women, democracy movements in eastern Europe etc all started somewhere. This one has already started. If people don't see that, don't feel it, they are being part of the problem, not the solution.

[Chip]

What I think is indicative of the challenge in affecting change here is the prevalent attitudes of people here. In my more than two years here in the DR after many, many friendly conversations with Dominicans in my imperfect but workable Spanish I have noticed a stark contrast between attitudes about politics between the "haves" and "have nots".

Almost predictably the have nots aren't very bothered by system and seem to find the blame on external influences, Bush, world economy etc. They also like to throw in big words and seemingly complex themes (to them anyway) for added benefit.

On the other hand, while the have nots are certainly versed in critiquing the current state of political affairs, a deep sense of overwhelming apathy pervades the conversation. Furthermore, as much as they are put off by the clientistic system, they will tell you that if they were offered a position that being poor, the temptation would be too much and they would probably take the job. However, what is really promising imo is when one presents apparently alien ideas of the purpose and function of Democracy as implemented by a patriotic citizenry. Ten times out of ten they appear as young children in grade school witnessing some strange and exciting and science class demonstration - almost completely in shock or at least taken aback by these "new" ideas. It is something to witness and really tells me there is potential for change here.

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

The UN are "outsiders" regardless as to who wrote the report.

Thank goodness many Dominicans are on board. Seems to me Dominicans are ready for change.....but if you read the report you would have known that.

The HDO coordinated the preparation
of the Report along with a team of more
than 20 professionals, most of them Do-
minicans. More than 30 presentations and
consultations were carried out with the participation
of different sectors of the population,
among them the private sector, deputies,
senators, municipal councilors, various
Ministries of State and government institutions,
civil society, academia, and grassroots
organizations, reaching over 1,150 people.
The HDO acknowledges the collaboration
and support provided by 27 state institutions
in gathering statistical and documentary
information, as well as the collaboration
of 151 persons who commented on the
Report, wrote critiques, provided statistics
and maps, etc.
With this work, it is our hope that we
may contribute to a paradigm shift that will
put people first, since it is people who are
both the means and the end of development.
We believe that only through a broad
and inclusive vision, one in which everyone
has the power to influence on collective
decisions, that will we manage to agree on a
common, forward-looking project that can
transform our reality into a society in which
human development is not a matter of
power, but a question of rights.

my bold
http://www.pnud.org.do/sites/pnud.on...men_Ingles.pdf

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo

Thank goodness many Dominicans are on board. Seems to me Dominicans are ready for change.....but if you read the report you would have known that.



my bold
http://www.pnud.org.do/sites/pnud.on...men_Ingles.pdf

The UN, as an organization, are outsiders.

I read the report.

I believe those who participated in the report are fine, sincere folks. But my point is that the vast majority of the folks who those fine, sincere folks "speak" for aren't interested in what they have to say, as the results of the recent election show that the folks who care enough to participate with ACTIONS (not wirds) STILL chose the "old way" of clientelism, etc., to the new "enlightened and empowered" way. Besides, what is more empowered than the ballot box?

I'm not defending the status quo. I'm merely pointing out the obvious with a dose of Occam's Razor.

[Lambada]

I wonder if we need an adjunct thread called something like 'What have I DONE today to further the cause of empowerment?'. For residents, it could be something like the sort of conversations Chip describes above or other consciousness-raising efforts. For Dominicans in the exterior, phone discussions with family. Those involved in the focus groups could report back. Those working grass roots projects could describe the work, get others to join in. Thus running businesses could describe their workers' co-operatives for getting grassroots ideas moving upwards .

Can we all take on board that if we foreigners choose to live here in DR and enjoy its benefits that we have a responsibility to join with those seeking to improve it? I'm enormously heartened to see the ideas put forward in the report by Dominicans. Some of these notions I've been muttering for years but fairly quietly because I'm a gringa. Now is the time to ramp up the decibel level, methinks. There are a lot more people on the same train (& it isn't the Metro ).

Sure there will be periods of 2 steps forward & 3 steps back. That's when group support is important so people don't get disheartened. And because the actions need to be inclusive those who are cynical about change should be included also. Eventually they may well be the movement's strongest advocates. You know who you are .

[Lambada]

I've just finished reading the full report (as well as the summary which I read a couple of days ago). I am FULL of admiration for the authors & researchers: they have not only built on previous analyses of what the problems & issues are, they have also identifed change strategies, made suggestions as to how these could be implemented and provided a baseline roadmap for further discussion & action.

Does anyone else have views on this report? It isn't dry academic stuff, it's a real analysis of the country we call home. I'm going to be suggesting to all intending DR residents that it is required reading.