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05-29-2008, 05:48 PM
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Silver
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 183
(10)
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Informe PNUD 2008
Hello room,
First thread.
The PNUD report is out. I would like to know your views as foreigners living on the island, as dominican living abroad, or as dominican residing in the country their views on the subject.
The chief economists, Mr. Ceara-Hatton declares that the Tigueraje is crippling the chance of the country reaching a decent level of equity.
Have you been prey to the Tigueraje that characterizes us (I am dominican) in your everyday life?
More on the subject and other topics as the thread goes.
Kind regards,
M.S.
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05-29-2008, 06:21 PM
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Silver
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 391
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Available in English? On-line? Where?
I visited the site contained in the DR1 story on this report. It appears from the site that only the Spanish language version is available? True? This report seems very interesting, perhaps controversial. I would like to read it in English; my Spanish is mediocre. I'm being charitable! Thank you.
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05-29-2008, 06:45 PM
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DR1
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Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 4,405
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I believe what he proposes is the DR's only chance of making this a place where those of us who do not want to live in gated communities can live the lives we have until about now.
They should soon translate the summary of the report.
What is most important is that there now will be a base for discussions, as the report effort has compiled a bunch of data for continued analysis.
Yesterday at the presentation, there was not a single government minister.
I participated in the 2005 report. At first it was very criticized, but then even its opponents realized the truth was being said. We need inclusion, not exclusion. If we continue to exclude, we soon will exclude ourselves.
The 2008 report may be able to make a similar impact. It opens wounds, many people will be in denial. It has to be talked out.
Was there at the presentation in the precious Aula Magna of the UASD. I wondered if people understood what was being said.
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05-29-2008, 07:17 PM
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DR1
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Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 4,405
(71)
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05-31-2008, 09:05 AM
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Silver
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 183
(10)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores
Yesterday at the presentation, there was not a single government minister.
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Interesting that there was not any. It would have given the government officials some good points for trying to show how open to criticism they would be. Many people have pointed this out through comments along online newspapers and other online venues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores
I participated in the 2005 report. At first it was very criticized, but then even its opponents realized the truth was being said. We need inclusion, not exclusion. If we continue to exclude, we soon will exclude ourselves.
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Good. Could you please say briefly the differences in the two reports. Which data show decrease or increase in certain key areas? I have just downloaded the 2005 report. A nice weekend awaits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores
Was there at the presentation in the precious Aula Magna of the UASD. I wondered if people understood what was being said.
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It pains me to feel the same way you do about this announcement. How many times have a dominican been in a presentation of key issues using summarized data, or explained through economics variables for the sole result to get lost in the dazzle of a pretty powerpoint presentation and the charisma or not of the speaker.
Kind regards.
Miguel
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05-31-2008, 04:00 PM
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DR1
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Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 4,405
(71)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelspencer
Could you please say briefly the differences in the two reports. Which data show decrease or increase in certain key areas? I have just downloaded the 2005 report.
Miguel
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The 2008 report builds on the 2005 one. The 2005 report established that the relatively low human development in the DR is not the result of the lack of resources, but rather the lack of commitment of the leadership (business, political, social and religious) to long term development and the scarce empowerment of the most influential sectors of society to push for a social pact that would guarantee human development. Basically, there has been economic growth, but this had not trickled down to the people, with the indifference of the powers that be.
The 2008 report takes it a step forward. It criticizes the local style of economic growth and institutions that create wealth reproducing the misery of the people. The most dramatic finding is that the province that has generated the most wealth in recent years, La Altagracia (where the tourism development has concentrated in Punta Cana) has dramatically low human development indexes.
And then it establishes that empowerment of the people is necessary if people are to have opportunities. It sends out a challenge for empowerment, and for this citizens have to become better citizens (including business, social groups, religious groups, even politicians) need to demand the rule of the law for the common good. It brings it down to politics, this time around. By establishing that it has found that human development is a matter of power, and thus, of politics, understanding that politics is the space where power relations are dealt with. And it concludes that historically, given the degree of social, economic and institutional inequity in the DR today, the power structures have failed to build a society that provides access to opportunities except to those that are in power. It criticizes governments, indicating that these have upheld a logic of perverse loyalties: the logic of power for power and to themselves. There is no loyalty with the population nor with state policies nor with development.
It concludes that for a regime of rule of the law to be achieved, where the people can have fair access to opportunities, there needs to be consequences for actions. That is a system of justice that penalizes violations of the law, and an empowered population that exercises its rights. It criticizes that the system of political parties has served to weaken the consequences.
To end, the report states:
"Finally, if up to now the structures and power relations have not generated human development as would be expected given the resources available, have not reduced the inequities nor strengthened the country's institutions, there are no reasons to suppose that they will do so spontaneously in the future. If the society does not organize itself, empower itself and restructure its power relations, there will not be human development. Human development is a matter of power."
Those interested in reading a summary of the report in English, see See http://www.pnud.org.do/sites/pnud.on...men_Ingles.pdf
Last edited by Dolores; 06-01-2008 at 11:46 AM..
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06-01-2008, 01:30 AM
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Gold
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores
And then it establishes that empowerment of the people is necessary if people are to have opportunities. It sends out a challenge for empowerment, and for this citizens have to become better citizens (including business, social groups, religious groups, even politicians) need to demand the rule of the law for the common good. It brings it down to politics, this time around. By establishing that it has found that human development is a matter of power, and thus, of politics, understanding that politics is the space where power relations are dealt with. And it concludes that historically, given the degree of social, economic and institutional inequity in the DR today, the power structures have failed to build a society that provides access to opportunities except to those that are in power. It criticizes governments, indicating that these have upheld a logic of perverse loyalties: the logic of power for power and to themselves. There is no loyalty with the population nor with state policies nor with development.
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This is crucial stuff. I read the English summary yesterday & am just starting on the whole report in Spanish. It is so terribly important that this report is understood and taken on board. Disappointing to learn that not one single Government minister was present. Were there any opposition representatives (PRD) there? Much of the content should reverberate with what a populist party ought to be about..............
The back cover of the English summary says: '...........There is no reason to believe that political institutions and power structures will change spontaneously. There will be no human development if people fail to organise, to become empowered, to mobilise and to restructure power relationships because human development is a matter of power.'
I wonder how the Human Development Office intends getting the attention from Government for this report which it deserves? How they 'mobilise, become empowered etc' will be an object lesson for all citizens. Do you know, Dolores, whether for example this report will be widely circulated to foreign academic institutions i.e. those who have courses in Latin American & Caribbean studies/economics/sociology/social policy etc? Will it be circulated to the foreign press? Will it be sent to foreign countries with large investments here? Even to companies thinking of investing here?
If this report can have wide circulation & a big impact then I believe that would give citizens hope for change. Currently that hope is missing as was all too clear here:
El Dinero - Informe del PNUD revela 57% criollos quiere irse del paÃ*s
Yes it most certainly needs to be used as a basis for informed discussion but perhaps even more so as a basis for informed action.
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06-01-2008, 10:58 AM
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Gold
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,968
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I wonder what would happen on this island if the politicians were paid a comparative salary with other professionals working here, botellas were removed and all of this surplus money spent on public infrastructure, education, and better wages for police and health sector workers? Can anybody imagine a RD with clean and drivable streets, a professional police cadre, dependable power and water?
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06-01-2008, 11:58 AM
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Gold
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,316
(59)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip
I wonder what would happen on this island if the politicians were paid a comparative salary with other professionals working here, botellas were removed and all of this surplus money spent on public infrastructure, education, and better wages for police and health sector workers? Can anybody imagine a RD with clean and drivable streets, a professional police cadre, dependable power and water?
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This is the perfect picture for Scandinavian nations or Switzerland 
In DR, it is total science-fiction !
As long as Hispaniola will be shared by Dominicans & Haitians, both sides of this island will be heavily corrupt. It is like rice & beans, güira & merengue...
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