Laws allowing fiscal abuse

[RHM]

Originally Posted by Rocky

I can't believe how few people get that.
Just saving the country from the impending bankruptcy brought on by the hippo, is good enough for me.

You and I have disagreed on this one in the past, Rocky, and we probably always will.

(1) SuarezN, I never expected a miracle from Leonel. Ever. So, please don't put me in that category.

(2) "He's not Hipolito" only works for a little while. He's been President for 8 of the last 12 years. You'd think he'd be able to pull off something else besides "not being Hipolito". (something everybody on this board can also claim...unless Hiploito is a member )

Just my 2 cents. It's not about people "getting it" or not. It's about expecting SOMETHING in return for all the accolades showered on the guy.

RHM

[RHM]

Originally Posted by BushBaby

'Take Videos & put them on U-tube'???? That would be downright dangerous. It would take any reasonable investigator about two days to find out who is putting those videos up & then 'The Rough Guys' would come visiting!!

~ Grahame.

Very true, Grahame. Free speech exists here but not to the extent that it does in other countries. Robert and I were surprised at how many people told us to "be careful" when we were doing regular episodes of the Mangu Minute (believe it or not).

Interestingly, it wasn't our criticism of politicians but our criticism of the Cardinal that drew the most gasps. Go figure.

RHM

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Originally Posted by Scandall

Interestingly, it wasn't our criticism of politicians but our criticism of the Cardinal that drew the most gasps. Go figure.

That's because they're one and the same. Monseñor Agripino Collado is one of the most powerful politicians in the country, so you have to figure that his boss, the cardinal, is even more so. He just keeps a lower profile.

[Hipocrito Mejia]

Originally Posted by suarezn

Guillermo Moreno (only honest politician I can think of) continues to be the candidate for Miuca...maybe one day he can get enough pull to effect some change.

He's quite an impressive guy, but sadly, he or any other honest candidate will never get anywhere. There's too much money at play, and the crooked guys have a lot more to invest in buying voters... errrrrrr, I mean campaigning!

[A.Hidalgo]

10 Cosas que puedes hacer para luchar contra la corrupción:

1.- Conoce tus derechos
Infórmate, edúcate, si conoces tus derechos podrás exigirlos con firmeza y no podrán
engañarte o abusar de ti.

2.- Sigue las Reglas
Si quieres exigir tus derechos, cumple tus obligaciones, no intentes pasar delante de las filas, espera tu turno, sigue las reglas. Para exigir transparencia, debes ser transparente.

3.- Predica con el Ejemplo
No digas una cosa y hagas otra. Quieres una mejor sociedad, cumple las leyes, cumple tus compromisos, no violes la luz en rojo, no pagues macuteo, haz las cosas correcta y honestamente.

4.- Identifica actos de Corrupción
Edúcate y educa a los tuyos sobre que es la corrupción en sus diversas manifestaciones. No seas corrupto por ignorancia.

5.- No pagues macuteo
No pagues ni ofrezcas pagos ilegales, acepta tu responsabilidad. Si violaste una luz en rojo,
acepta tu multa, darás un ejemplo a tus hijos, hijas y a tus amigos. Detener la corrupción
es responsabilidad de todos.

6.- Mantén tus documentos en reglaa
La mejor forma de evitar el macuteo es tener todos tus documentos al día, por la reglita,
así nadie podrá abusar de tu falta para pedirte un dinerito.

7.- Planifícate
Que las instituciones públicas son lentas? Eso no es excusa, ve con tiempo, no esperes
el último día y verás que puedes esperar el tiempo necesario y evitar el macuteo.

8.- Denuncia la corrupción
No seas indiferente, no te quedes callado ante actos de Corrupción, es que no es
parte de la Solución, es parte del Problema.

9.- Participa en el mejoramiento de tu comunidad
No les dejes el mejoramiento de la comunidad a los otros. La comunidad es la suma de todos,
si tú mejoras como individuo y todos en tu casa lo hacen, tu comunidad mejorará. Busca espacios donde puedes participar y aportar como ciudadano/ciudadana, asume un rol en el control social.

10.- No pierdas la convicción
No creas que no se puede hacer nada, la Corrupción se alimenta de la desesperanza, ten fé, convicción y lucha y verás como las cosas cambian. No creas que un pequeño grupo de
personas no puede cambiar al mundo, si no analizas, es lo que siempre ha sucedido.

[A.Hidalgo]

The above 10 steps comes from La Lucha, one of a few Dominican organizations fighting against what this thread is all about......corruption. Short of picking up a rifle and going to the hills to organized a revolution, it makes sense to join and participate in these types of organizations. For those that don't live on the island, we can help them monetarily. Their link is very helpful and interesting with lots of info on how to get involved. One step at a time.....

La Lucha contra la corrupción

[BushBaby]

Originally Posted by Chip

With all due respect, I disagree on two counts,

Count 1: I have discussed the issure of "change" with many, many Dominicans and by far the only ones that weren't interested in change were on the dole or affluent - hey if it's not broken....

Count 2: this is my country, my language and my people too.

Chip,
we disagree on only ONE point as I am NOT saying Dominicans are not interested in change. I KNOW the men (& women before I get accused of male chauvanism) in the street, the ones who run legitimate businesses, the doctors/dentists etc ALL know what is wrong with this country & are anxious to get some changes made. The point I was making is that it is not for US from 'other lands' to insist the changes have to be in line with what we percieve as 'the way forward'!! What WE can do is channel this level of wanting change into a format where The Dominicans can organise their own demands into a format where they speak with ONE very large voice.

Yes, point 2 we will disagree on. It is MY country (by choice) because of my commitment to it & love of the people. I speak a bit of Spanish (badly but in a manner that allows me to communicate fairly easily) & I would like to think that I have been accepted by the Dominicans.

Hey, they called me 'casi Dominicano' when I had been living here 10 years. They now call me Dominicano after 15 years .......... but I am not niaive enough to think that I will ever be anything else to the Dominicans than a helpful, considerate, well meaning & (to some) intelligent 'Exranajero'. It is MY country by MY choice, MY heart, MY desire etc. but I do not believe for one moment that if 'push came to shove' that the DOMINICANS would consider that it is MY country - whether I had got my Citizenship or not! Your thought processes, MY thought processes, our actions & way of handling things will always set us aside as being NON Dominican. That is why we must 'help' with possible solutions rather than 'demand' results (as is being done here on this thread).

Now, if we were to give in gracefully, roll over on our backs & say "Kick Me Again Mr President Please" ............ maybe we COULD be considered more Dominican??? ~ Grahame.

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by suarezn

On a personal note if Guillermo Moreno (only honest politician I can think of) continues to be the candidate for Miuca I will join in and help as much as I can so maybe, just maybe one day he can get enough pull to effect some change. That will be my little contribution...

Originally Posted by suarezn

Let me tell you another thing...the most honest person can be easily bought out. I speak from experience as I have friends who spoke the same way I speak now...Well let me tell you a couple of them are now enjoying the spoils of being in power and if you talk to them it's like they are different people...The PLD can do no wrong.

Emboldening mine. Following your logic, suarezn, what's to stop Guillermo Moreno becoming just like all the others if/when he gets enough pull to effect some change? After the elections I asked the crowd gathered in my breadshop aka political centre if they would vote for him in the future. Their response was 'no point, when he gets important enough to matter he'll become just like all the others'. That isn't my perception of Moreno, it's theirs, but I need to listen because these folk have been living politics in the DR a lot longer than me.

And they could be right. Which is why change from the bottom up is important, the PNUD empowerment stuff.
Informe PNUD 2008

Good link A.Hidalgo. Lots on that site.

[suarezn]

Of course (as always) you're right on the fact that nothing would stop him from being corrupt. Personally I don't think he would as he's very well off as it is (from his and his wife's hard work), but I could be wrong.

The thing is not so much that the president is corrupt himself, but to what extent does he accept corruption? Best example we have is Balaguer whom everyone knew was not corrupt himself, but he allowed it and even encouraged it as a way to remain in power. He once wrote that corruption in The DR only stopped at his office's door.

Leonel himself I believe is not that corrupt (maybe a little) but he's not doing anything to fight it and actually following Balaguer's philosophy to the tee.

Seeing the way Moreno acted when he was given the power to prosecute by Fernandez in his first administration I hope that if he ever gets some real power he would break the cycle of "Borron y Cuenta Nueva". He's definitely not afraid to take on the powers that be...

[Bayx-**]

I agree with you Chip. I come from a small town (campo) and there is more than one leader there. The government hasn’t done anything to help this town.

Today most of the people have solar panels, television and clean water and guess what it has nothing to do with the government. Some of the town improvements have to do with charitable organization some from the states and the community getting together for a change. I believe they will someday get the road built. Things don’t happens overnight or just by itself.

Yes it’s a very dangerous place to complaint. If just one person comes out to make a change is very possible he/she won’t get far, but if a group of people comes out it will be a lot more difficult to get rid off.

On the other hand I m not suggesting anyone to go out there and risk their life.
Just trying to make a point.

Take care**