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  #21  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:16 AM
RHM RHM is offline
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Originally Posted by LaTeacher View Post

but your point brings up another very valid point. remember people, it's NOT JUST THE PUBLIC SYSTEM THAT IS IN CRISIS. the private schools ARE JUST AS BAD - even the really expensive ones that are supposed to be BETTER. they're not. in fact, the teachers who work there spend THEIR days complaining about how little they get paid and not really focused on how MUCH the kids should be learning. sad fact. but i'd send my kid to public school over an overpriced waste anyday (but that's a personal opinion and not meant to start an argument, everyone has a different situation/philosophy and i'm by no means the end all on dominican educatioN)
@ La teacher

Pretty big brush you're painting with, but I assume your personal experiences have shaped your opinion. Thankfully, mine have been more positive.

I'd say that people shopping around for a good school should take their time and ask a lot of questions. Find out about methodologies etc. Just because a school is private doesn't mean it's good. However, the top tier schools are typically considered top tier for a reason. All private schools are not created equal.

@ Cobra,

The people you spoke with (school owners) have the benefit of being "far from the flag-pole." Schools inside the capital have much more interaction with the Secretaria. I'm now sure which is better.

The definition of private school in the DR really comes down to money. There are plenty of "private" schools that are considered private because they charge tuition of RD$1,000. They are not comparable to the higher priced schools (which are not all good as I said before).

As for the % of Dominicans in the "private" system, I just asked about 5 different people I work with (including our official liaison to the secretaria). Estimates are anywhere between 5% and 20%. Reliable data on things like that is sketchy (2 million or so undocumented Dominicans among other things throw off any numbers).

If I had to guess I'd say 10% go to private schools (with a very loose definition of private.)

(I typed this in a hurry, go easy on me if there are mistakes).

RHM
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RHM View Post
@ Cobra,

The people you spoke with (school owners) have the benefit of being "far from the flag-pole." Schools inside the capital have much more interaction with the Secretaria. I'm now sure which is better.

The definition of private school in the DR really comes down to money. There are plenty of "private" schools that are considered private because they charge tuition of RD$1,000. They are not comparable to the higher priced schools (which are not all good as I said before).

As for the % of Dominicans in the "private" system, I just asked about 5 different people I work with (including our official liaison to the secretaria). Estimates are anywhere between 5% and 20%. Reliable data on things like that is sketchy (2 million or so undocumented Dominicans among other things throw off any numbers).

If I had to guess I'd say 10% go to private schools (with a very loose definition of private.)

(I typed this in a hurry, go easy on me if there are mistakes).

RHM
Thanks, I'm certainly not an educator.

What control does the Education Ministry have over private schools near the flagpole? Just wondering.

I've talked to a LOT of folks who either went to private schools, or kids go there. There is a "large" (250 students) private school across the street from me where all but Dominican Civics are taught in English. I know a bunch of teachers (primarily Americans, mostly young, recent teacher college graduates, clean-cut missionary types, all pretty sharp), and spend a lot of time with them. They approach their jobs like teachers in the US do, and kids are in school from 7:30am until 3:15 pm, with lunch and two breaks in the day. Seems pretty rigorous compared to public education, IMO.

Interesting comment from them: kids who have never been to the US seem to be MUCH better academically motivated and better behaved than kids who lived in the US. Seems as though the academic sloth of DomYorks permeates their kids. In fact, some parents don't want their kids hanging with the kids of DomYorks. Not MY observations, I wouldn't know. THEIR comments.
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  #23  
Old 10-20-2008, 03:23 PM
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not all private schools are bad, you're right.
but you talk of "top-tier" schools that only the elite of the country can attend. santiago christian school, carol morgan, etc... if only 10% of the population study in private schools, these schools have such a miniscule percent of the population that it seems unfair to even consider them in the grand scheme of things. it's like comparing apples and oranges.

it's also true the the further away you are from the bigger districts, the less involvement you'll see from the government in private schooling. in santiago, the district has a heavy hand, but even in tamboril, the influence is much lighter. i'm not sure which is worse - to have schools following silly procedures just because they have to or having schools dismissed as unimportant because of their location.

@cobraboy: you have to be very careful about comparing bilingual to all spanish schools. and about schools with missionary teachers. if we continue to say "well, SCS is good because it's got all american teachers" or "the large private school across the street is good bc of the american teachers"... it's not helping the problem. not all schools can have american teachers, and just because teachers are american doesn't make them good. the problem is primarily in the schools that offer spanish education and have dominican teachers. yes?

as far as students being academically motivated? i think it purely depends on the family and the child. not all dominicans go to the united states to mooch off the government or sloth around. it's a good observation, but i wonder if its not that the kids think they can get away with more because they already have a visa?
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  #24  
Old 10-20-2008, 07:13 PM
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Private schools in the DR, including the DR have to have their schools inspected by the school district and present their plan, vision, mission statement...etc, teachers qualifications examined, and have their curriculum approved. Other than that there is little involvement. This includes the school next to CB. Private schools are businesses of course, and they are in the business of providing a service for money. Regardless of the amount of money you charge, you have to provide the service your clients want because they have plenty of options, even poor people. It is a fine line ; hiring the best teachers and providing a very high standard costs money; this means your group of clients is more limited. Provide better than the public school at a reasonable price and you make more money by volume. Yris has many loyal clients. Many of her former students now send their own children to her school. Missionary schools have the advantage than much of their operating cost is born by the church group in the states. They usually do a good job of teaching English, but they also a strong indoctrination into religion which many Dominican parents don't approve of(anti-Catholic slant).
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  #25  
Old 10-20-2008, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bob saunders View Post
They usually do a good job of teaching English, but they also a strong indoctrination into religion which many Dominican parents don't approve of(anti-Catholic slant).
True, but some schools aren't Catholic, but Christian.

'Course, I'm neither an educator, religious, or a parent.
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  #26  
Old 10-20-2008, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LaTeacher View Post
not all private schools are bad, you're right.
but you talk of "top-tier" schools that only the elite of the country can attend. santiago christian school, carol morgan, etc... if only 10% of the population study in private schools, these schools have such a miniscule percent of the population that it seems unfair to even consider them in the grand scheme of things. it's like comparing apples and oranges.

it's also true the the further away you are from the bigger districts, the less involvement you'll see from the government in private schooling. in santiago, the district has a heavy hand, but even in tamboril, the influence is much lighter. i'm not sure which is worse - to have schools following silly procedures just because they have to or having schools dismissed as unimportant because of their location.

@cobraboy: you have to be very careful about comparing bilingual to all spanish schools. and about schools with missionary teachers. if we continue to say "well, SCS is good because it's got all american teachers" or "the large private school across the street is good bc of the american teachers"... it's not helping the problem. not all schools can have american teachers, and just because teachers are american doesn't make them good. the problem is primarily in the schools that offer spanish education and have dominican teachers. yes?

as far as students being academically motivated? i think it purely depends on the family and the child. not all dominicans go to the united states to mooch off the government or sloth around. it's a good observation, but i wonder if its not that the kids think they can get away with more because they already have a visa?
absolutely on my line of thinking.
we have to see where the mass get's educated and how and what needs improvement there.
the elite exists in every country, poor or rich, and does not count in the stats about the over all mass.
at my son's private school they have at max a 5% of expats kiddies, including mine, and mine are originally pure dominican breeds, all adopted, but that's my personal thingy and an other theme to give a kick to the ones who've been trown into this world instead of bring up more.
the most kids are from dominican families around the nearby area, not a fancy private school, hey, we pay 1500 pesos a month basic fees, the most parents are employess in the companies around, some are dominican small business men, like the people who own a good running cervezero aso, people who often did not receive big education themselves, but want their kids to climb the ladder for them.
i would prefer to send the boy to the Centro Educativo Punta Cana or to the one at Cap Cana, but such is by very far out of my possibilities, would be talking about the little Elite.
catholic christian or convert christian does often not make the huge difference in private school business. i first thought about that before we went to that patricular school, because it is converted christians, me and my wife and the boy are catholic christians(we don't care, i am not going to church every sunday and i respect good people 'cause they are that, good people, not for anything else), so we went there to check that out. result: it doesn't matter at that particular school(yes, i know others where it matters a lot, and i did not want some teacher or what so ever pushing my little boy into something he would not even know about what's going on), so no prob from that side.
with the teachers, yeap, it is always mixed feelings, i need more time to see what is coming up as results. from friends and former partners i have a good inside in the worlds upper priced punta cana school, and there's been by far not all gold just because daddy is paying the big bucks every 6 months. til now i see that they leak on the same points:
many(not all, there are a lot and also experienced people around who do a great job at both) would need just the second next generation of teachers, at least i hope that we get improvement there, in the preparation of the people who educate our children and that way in the education of the people who educate our teachers.
it will take a lot of time.
right now i just watch and check results and hope that i do not have to change my decision to send him there when he's up for 1st class next summer. that's just the point of view from the parent who cares.
to the posts with the dominican york kiddies.
that's not so different to any other country.
they are that part of the kiddies who think they are a class above the rest, have it all, no need to do anything extra or additional, because daddy is the big cabby driver in NYCity.
while the original ones born and living right here wanna show they whole world, specially the NY lazies, that they can hold up with 'em. mostly they are anyways ahead of 'em because they have the much more open minds for everything new to them.
to find a school with many dominica york kids in the books would for myself be a dealbreaker on the hunt for the right spot for the boy.
agree on the mentioning of the missionary schools, i think La Teacher mentioned that(sorry if i mess the posts), they are known for a strict admin in case of their guidelines, the provide more of the stuff they offer than others do.
they are all businesses and i really hope that they learned back in the day during their own school times where ever than may've been taken place the basics for any long term business:
offer good stuff for a reasonable rate,
and PROVIDE what you offered,
so you will have returning customers and ongoing business.
only here in our really small(thin populated compared to the cities) area we have lately private schools coming up like something what is "in" now, something "hipp", "fancy" or what ever such is called.
i just hope they do good business and not just planned on some years and then the invested money paid back sufficent rendits and they are gone.
Mike
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:15 AM
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Just a small point: hasn't the edumacational system in the DR ALWAYS been in "crisis"? Has it ever been any different?
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:39 AM
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Just a small point: hasn't the edumacational system in the DR ALWAYS been in "crisis"? Has it ever been any different?
Cobraboy

I don't know the answer to that question, but I assume Cobra is correct, it has always been in crisis.

In my opinion, the different now is that there are rising expectations among many different segments of DR society. With these rising expectations come a push for change and reform.

I think the people have only begun to crawl out from the Trujillo mentality during the past 10 years or so, and only now are they are beginning to expect a faster rate of change. In addition, Leonel helped to raise expectations with some of his campaign rhetoric, and people are waiting for him to deliver.

I also believe the people are just starting to realize the tremendous importance of education, particularly within the context of the emerging worldwide economy.
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:46 AM
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Yes -it has always been patchy. There have been some consistently good institutions like the top private schools and Catholic schools, but in terms of providing quality to the entire populace through the state system, never. Many people who grew up during the Trujillo dictatorship when education was supposed to have been better are illiterate.
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2008, 08:54 PM
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MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 (578)
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times are changing,
and in a below average country exploring the planet they are changing on high speed. 30 years ago the biggest crowd of the island did not have access to a TV or much notice about the outside of the country aside of the rumors about the family members who made it over the channel and found the gold in PR and NYC.
today everybody knows the big ex local ball players in the 1st american league, ask 100 on the street and there will be none who tells ya he has no family over there or drems of going there, the country meets the outside due to tourism and the medias. so a wake up call went around, and everybody wanna be in the first row.
that's natural and in it's own showing up even deevloped countries are not so different on the "new stuff".
take the northamerican continent:
how many northamericans(americans and canadians) owned or thought about a condo or such outside of the homecountry??
and todays?, the caribbean get's nearly spammed, can barely hold up in case of constructing speed.
the globe started to conquer the globe, and that's done in high speed, in often completely out of controlled high speed where for many finally some heavy speeding tickets need to get paid.
so here in the country the people understood that than better the education than better the chances to be able to efford to join that conquerer's train.
while driving down to the Marina this morning i listened to a good subject on the radio, due to phonecalls i sorrily could not follow the whole details.
it has been about education and the % of public schools in the DR.
the numbers said that the island runs actually a 10% of all schools as private school. those been the numbers about the schools, not about the number of students on either part of the count.
did anybody get those numbers?
Mike
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