Did anyone do the arithmatic??? OMG!!

[Malibook]

Originally Posted by madera

it seems that if 170k people a day use the metro. it should pay for itself very quickly... figure 150k dollars per day. 6 days a week. close to 50 million dollars... only cost 700...14 years or so... upkeep will kill it it will stop one day and never run again...

If the loan is at 0% interest and the profit margin is 100%, you might be right.

[Texas Bill]

Catcher;

I can't see where there can be any immediate improvement in today's system of education in the DR until that system gets reliable, educated teachers who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING instead of using the rote method by which they learned the subjects themselves.
The system, as used today, is as antiquated as my old body---maybe more so, since I'm only 82. At least I had college educated teaachers and REAL textboks in the education system I learned under, and that was in the 30's and early 40's.
Tell me how you would improve on the system to the advantage of the thousands of already EDUCATIONALY DIS-ADVANTAGED currently matriculating. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!! That's DIRECTLY APPLICABLE to the current crop of students here, from the FIRST GRADE on up.
You, and others (myself included) have beaten this horse to death without addressing the real problem of RE-EDUCATING the instructor arena, and that's where the failure really needs to be placed.
Admit it, and go on. The past is past and there is no recovering what has been lost.

Texas Bill

[suarezn]

Originally Posted by Malibook

If the loan is at 0% interest and the profit margin is 100%, you might be right.

...and if there were no other costs associated with running it. Given that The DR has one of the highest electricity cost in the western hemisphere I would think at 20 pesos we'll be subsidizing this thing for years to come...

Arturo: You're definitely confused...As HB mentioned I don't think anyone would be against the Metro if other higher priorities and basic necessities such as clean water,electricity, etc...were taken care of.

[JDJones]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

WOW!! Congrats JD....good for you...I'll try and see it when comes around...

Lots of gore..

BTW, initial reports from Metro riders are that they love it...and I can understand that...my beef is the cost, the sacrifice of other priorities, like schools and hospitals...of course Pichardo would have us believe that this will all go the way of your operation, when dozens if not hundreds of Dominican students will lose their semester because the gov't is so overdue with payments...oh come on, this is the DR...we are NOT going to have computer communities learning over the internet within the next ten years...We are NOT going to have doctors operating on patients in the campo via computers and we are certainly not going to have international airports in every province, except to receive drug shipments....

All hail to the Metro...I wonder how many of us or our readers will ever set foot on it??

HB, too late. That was back in July of 1999. Ages ago.

[jorgesarduysousa]

ignorance is what supplies the furnace of politics, keep them stupid and you'll get their vote

[MikeFisher]

that is still the point where i would be interested to know about.
the financial point.
i am not a financial expert, that's why i ask to get the knowledge.
how many pesos of subsidies the gubmin will need to pay per ride on the Metro?
and the math is really simple to do to find out that there need to be very high subsudies.
why?
b/c the financing partners/banks do that financing business to make money, to make a profit, and it is a 30 years plan of financing, but they sure did not finance a metro system to make money in 30 years, they want to run profitable from the beginning, and that's absolutely natural and understandable from any biz's side of view. with 20 or even with the later 25 pesos per ride, this is a bruto rate, not the money made out of a ride, the gubmin would need to pay more subsidies than passengers pay for the ticket.
25 pesos per ticket for 100.000 rides are 2.5 millions a day, por 365 days a year makes it 912.5 millions pesos per year, por the planned 30 years makes a total of RD$ 27.375 millions pesos which is by an imaginary constant exchange rate of 35.4 pesos per dollar a total of US$ 773.3.-Millions USDollars, that's just a 110.5% of the 30 years before invested money. those investors should bring their money on a banco popular savings account, would be a much better deal.
i would say that such non exact, just simple held numbers show that the Metro on the today's given rates could in no way pay itself, or make any profit aso.
now some may say "it is awaited to have 200.000 rides per day, not 100.000 like in my simple calculation, so after 30 years there would be more than double of the money that formerly invested, heck, in 30 years, that would still be the worst investment of 700 millions of US$ i ever heard about.
and we still did not calculate any cent or peso for maintenance costs, for reparations, for salaries of employees, replacement of worn or damaged trains or computers during 30!!! years, not calculated electricity bills aso aso aso.
so to make that Metro even with 200.000 daily PAYING passengers profitable for SOMEBODY, how many subsidies per ride the gubmin will need to pay from the People's Tax Payments???
we still did not count that many passengers anyways will ride free, like students, and hey, i don't want to get misunderstood on that point, i am absolutely for free rides of students, i would love to see such also today's on the usual ole fashioned public busses all over the island to bring kiddies to school for free.
and i can actually not imagine to get 200.000 PAYING passengers on the trains per day. maybe when many metro lines are finished, but those many lines also have higher maintenance aso costs than just one, even of course on many points less costy than just 1 first line.
i know that a beginning of something new runs less profits than later on as a established operation, but from my simple unexperienced point of few i see super high subsidies needed to run that horse, and those high subsidies need to be get by cutting down a lot on other expenses of the gubmin, like on today's education, like on the public butcheries/hospitals, aso aso.
i would like to read answers about the plans of how much and how to pay for that Metro to run it.
and don't tell me it's privately financed and run and operated as a joint venture of private+gubmin, because that private financed part will sure make it's profit out of their investment, so that makes clear to me that the gubmin's side of that joint venture will need to bleed and bleed and bleed, and that for not only the next 30 years.
Mike

[Hillbilly]

Aw, gee, Mike, did you have to make it so clear!!

Great questions (without any answers), and I completely agree with you...

This is just a humongeous swindle of all our tax money to satisfy a Dominican York president who wants to ride the subway again....year right!!

I wonder if in 10 months what the percentage of Santiagueros, Veganos, Marcorisanos will be that have ridden the Metro...that they are paying for!!

No matter my little decimal point error, there is no way they can pay for it in reality..

HB

[dms3611]

Had the same $ been used to continue to build overpasses in SDQ as well as outerbelts the DR would have been much better served in ALL aspects. I mean, just think of the congestion that could be avoided by being able to route folks from the North (STI) to the East (airport and beyond) without having to go through the city.......

If you are going to spend money on infrastructure...then SPEND the money on infrastructure......but HEY...thats right...the moneys already spent on some project that will never work successfully in a financially viable manner.....NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. And if there really are those that truly believe it will be financially successful/viable HAVE NEVER run.....NEVER....a successful large PROFIT generating (which is definitely not the same as some donation based/ grant based/ subsidized) project.

[Malibook]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

This is just a humongeous swindle of all our tax money to satisfy a Dominican York president who wants to ride the subway again....year right!!
HB

Blasphemy!!

Are you guys trying to give our long winded DR1 economists a headache?

I am sure they will be here soon to crunch the numbers and discredit you doom and gloomers.

Projected revenue minus salaries, power, maintenance, interest, and miscellaneous expenses equals mucho profits for debt payments and government coffers.

[MikeFisher]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

Aw, gee, Mike, did you have to make it so clear!!

Great questions (without any answers), and I completely agree with you...

This is just a humongeous swindle of all our tax money to satisfy a Dominican York president who wants to ride the subway again....year right!!

I wonder if in 10 months what the percentage of Santiagueros, Veganos, Marcorisanos will be that have ridden the Metro...that they are paying for!!

No matter my little decimal point error, there is no way they can pay for it in reality..

HB

yes Louis,
that's what i willingly did, it was the whole idea of my post,
to just ask and await the answers to come ...
totally agree with you,
IMO it will by very far not be payable by the gubmin/people/anybody.
that investment partnership will sure make their profit out of it,
many high gubmins will get/or got their share out of the deal,
and one sunny day Paradise will burn.
the Tax accounts have to bleed from day one on, that's sure,
and the other point is:
what happens if those investors go down the hill one day within the next 30 years,
like the Lehman brothers????

Originally Posted by dms3611

Had the same $ been used to continue to build overpasses in SDQ as well as outerbelts the DR would have been much better served in ALL aspects. I mean, just think of the congestion that could be avoided by being able to route folks from the North (STI) to the East (airport and beyond) without having to go through the city.......

If you are going to spend money on infrastructure...then SPEND the money on infrastructure......but HEY...thats right...the moneys already spent on some project that will never work successfully in a financially viable manner.....NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. And if there really are those that truly believe it will be financially successful/viable HAVE NEVER run.....NEVER....a successful large PROFIT generating (which is definitely not the same as some donation based/ grant based/ subsidized) project.

such can not be compared with the Metro project, it has nothing to do with infrastructure or schools or anything else in case of "for what that invested money from foreign banks/investors will be used for", because they do that investment for just one specific project, and that's the Metro. no Metro would mean No Investment, no 700 millions US$ to build it. it would also mean NO Unpayable Subsidies for that Project, so the gubmin would have much more financial backup to improve education, public hospitals, local infrastructure, but maybe on such they would earn less jeepetas or get less prepared for their time after their gobernmental period.
Mike