Dominicans, who are the bigger fools?

[Robert]

I guess now I think about it, the recent going's on with the PRD and the deal with Leonel brought on my OP. Plus now the rumors about Leonel's wife (First Lady) running for the big job in 2012.

It just reeks of discontent and distain for the Dominican people or the average "Joe" on the street. Combine this with the "Joe's" inherent greed, poor education, apathy and it just works. I personally think it's beautiful in it's execution, even if it's extremely sad to an outsider looking in.

The true power brokers of the country let their dogs do their thing, while the average "Joe's" inherent greed and apathy let it happen, to the point of supporting it in many cases.

Game over!

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by Chip

However, at times I feel it is such a pointless endeavor to discuss or think about these affronts to decency (mostly the fleecing of the poor in this country) inevitably a feeling of nausea overcome my desire to keep revisiting the whole issue.

Is it pointless, though? Shouldn't we be analysing why it happens, why people 'allow' it to happen?

The belief that 'nothing will change' stems from what? The 'learned helplessness' legacy of the dictatorship? The evidence of history? The wholesale swallowing of the various rewrites of Dominican history? The colonial roots? The 'fuku' as described by Junot Diaz? None of the above? What I think it doesn't stem from is a systemic depression in the Dominican people - you can't accuse Dominicans of deep seated, unconscious self-loathing. Or can you?

As expats it's very convenient for us, of course, not to have the population manning the barricades in revolt. But......our convenience isn't why the DR exists.

Anyone else sense the winds of change are altering course?

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Robert

I guess now I think about it, the recent going's on with the PRD and the deal with Leonel brought on my OP. Plus now the rumors about Leonel's wife (First Lady) running for the big job in 2012.

It just reeks of discontent and distain for the Dominican people or the average "Joe" on the street. Combine this with the "Joe's" inherent greed, poor education, apathy and it just works. I personally think it's beautiful in it's execution, even if it's extremely sad to an outsider looking in.

This is more of a dilemma among the political class of not seeing other capable leaders.

As you probably know, the DR political scene was dominated by three political parties (PLD, PRD, PRSC), the last one lost esteem after 1996, and especially after Balaguer died. Hence, only two political parties were left, creating a de facto two-party system. The recent agreement was simply making it official, now the DR is a two-party system; just like the U.S.

Among the PLD intelligentsia, there is a very deep distrust of the PRD. What happened during Hipolito's years is the main reason for this. On top of that, its not entirely clear if there is anyone within the PLD capable of leading the country in ways similar or better than Leonel has done thus far.

The modernization of the country is a long term ordeal, and it must remain in motion if the country is to become developed in the estimated time, considering long term economic development and economic growth rates. The PRD's lack of commitment to further modernizing the country, its lack of commitment to developing an internal consumer market, its insistance on maintaining the Dominican economy focused on the needs of other countries (ie. the US) is not something that sits well among many PLD leaders.

So, on the one hand there is the lack of modernization plans from the PRD and on the other hand is the lack of confidence of anyone else within the PLD being able of leading the country as Leonel has done.

This leads one option, for the time being.

Control the PRD and keep Fernandez in power until a solution to these two dilemmas is resolved.

Its in the country's best interest, maybe not so much in the short term, but definitely in the long term. And as its clearly evident, the long term is what truly matters. The country is the way it is, not due to recent events, but due to events that took place a long time ago.

-NALs

[dv8]

Originally Posted by Lambada

Is it pointless, though? Shouldn't we be analysing why it happens, why people 'allow' it to happen?
The belief that 'nothing will change' stems from what? The 'learned helplessness' legacy of the dictatorship? The evidence of history? The wholesale swallowing of the various rewrites of Dominican history? The colonial roots? The 'fuku' as described by Junot Diaz? None of the above? What I think it doesn't stem from is a systemic depression in the Dominican people - you can't accuse Dominicans of deep seated, unconscious self-loathing. Or can you?
As expats it's very convenient for us, of course, not to have the population manning the barricades in revolt. But......our convenience isn't why the DR exists.
Anyone else sense the winds of change are altering course?

i always smack miesposo in the head when he expresses this negative "nothing will change" attitude. i saw my own country change after 44 years of communism and i believe in the power of people.
i know i sound naive

[windeguy]

Does anyone have a list of the "Power Brokers" who are the puppet masters that pull the strings here in the DR?

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by Lambada

Is it pointless, though? Shouldn't we be analysing why it happens, why people 'allow' it to happen?

The belief that 'nothing will change' stems from what? The 'learned helplessness' legacy of the dictatorship? The evidence of history? The wholesale swallowing of the various rewrites of Dominican history? The colonial roots? The 'fuku' as described by Junot Diaz? None of the above? What I think it doesn't stem from is a systemic depression in the Dominican people - you can't accuse Dominicans of deep seated, unconscious self-loathing. Or can you?

As expats it's very convenient for us, of course, not to have the population manning the barricades in revolt. But......our convenience isn't why the DR exists.

Anyone else sense the winds of change are altering course?

Nothing changes because the majority of the Dominican people want it to change. And it won't change until the political will of the people wants it to.

Dorota makes a good argument for what I mean. There was a point when the folks under Communist oppression in Eastern Europe had had enough. The political will of the people overcame the gubmint in place.

The same could happen here, but I don't see the widespread discontent among the people to effect a big shift. Pockets of frustration, yes. Widespread? Not at all.

[dv8]

thank you, robert.
what i meant, in my naive way, is that people must really NEED change. in poland it was brought by opression, just like in DR the assasination of trujillo (see, dominicans can take action too). the problem is, that from the assasination things went down the hill, as far as economy and order goes. i was told that peso was exceptionally strong in trujillo times, health system and power were working well.

[suarezn]

I think some people are finally beginning to understand how the system is really run in The DR. Leonel, MVM, Hipolito, etc...are not the power brokers in this island. They are just puppets used in this whole game who are allowed to enrich themselves at the expense of the lower classes.

These guys can and are removed from "power" at will whenever they don't serve any purpose anymore or put in danger the order of things. They have to acquiesce to the demands of the people with the real power in The DR. Examples of this abound, but most people can't distinguish the trees from the forest. Here are a couple of examples to think about:

- The inclusion of article 30 in the constitution (Whose idea was it really? Leonel's? I don't think so)
- The passage of laws to maintain Haitians (even those born in The DR) as non-citizens and the lax enforcement of laws to allow a continued flow of cheap Haitian labor into The DR. Who benefits the most from this? Think about it for a minute. Who owns the sugar cane mills, the large resorts, etc.
- The return of all money to big investors from failed Baninter, while the small investor got nothing. Even though the bailout was so huge that was going to put huge stress (as it did) on the economy as a whole. Who benefits? Follow the money trail...
- The "capture" of Quirino and associates and subsequent handing over to US authorities. He had been operating on a very large scale for years (Even under the previous Leonel's government) in The DR without any consequences. Everybody knew it and nobody did anything until the order came to take him down.
- The lax attitude and laws on human trafficking of Dominicans to The US, Europe, etc...Who normally leaves the country? The poor. What would happen if the million+ Dominicans living outside the country nowadays would be made to stay in The DR and continue to live in poverty. Again who benefits?

Food for thought...

[cobraboy]

Originally Posted by dv8

thank you, robert.
what i meant, in my naive way, is that people must really NEED change. in poland it was brought by opression, just like in DR the assasination of trujillo (see, dominicans can take action too). the problem is, that from the assasination things went down the hill, as far as economy and order goes. i was told that peso was exceptionally strong in trujillo times, health system and power were working well.

"Need" preceeds "want". Often "want" has to be described to folks. "Want" is the action plan to implement need.

I know it's wrod parsing to a certain extent.

But often folks compare their current situation to the pain necessary to get to where they "want", and decide the marginal effort isn't worth the marginal benefit. When the benefit of "want" exceeds the pain and effort for the majority of people, THAT is when Real Change will take place.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by Lambada

Is it pointless, though? Shouldn't we be analyzing why it happens, why people 'allow' it to happen?

The belief that 'nothing will change' stems from what? The 'learned helplessness' legacy of the dictatorship? The evidence of history? The wholesale swallowing of the various rewrites of Dominican history? The colonial roots? The 'fuku' as described by Junot Diaz? None of the above? What I think it doesn't stem from is a systemic depression in the Dominican people - you can't accuse Dominicans of deep seated, unconscious self-loathing. Or can you?

As expats it's very convenient for us, of course, not to have the population manning the barricades in revolt. But......our convenience isn't why the DR exists.

Anyone else sense the winds of change are altering course?

I may sound apathetic now but to my credit when I first came here I was all full of change and hope - so much so that I think it was HB who commented about my radical opinions, jeje. However, I have with time come to understand the depths of the problem and, while I still have hope, I now understand it will be some time for change to come because it will only come about as the youths are exposed to different ideas, etc.

I believe the peculiar phenomenon that prevents Dominicans from advancing in this regard is that are Dominicans very homogeneous in their outlook and understanding of politics outside of the DR (and many other things as well), even the more educated ones. I think this is due to the fact that the DR is a very socially constructed culture where force of will, argumentative skills and standing in the community consistently trump reason and common sense. Anybody who has ever lived here any length of time and socialized with Dominicans should certainly agree with the latter comment. Furthermore, this societal feature is well understood by the many who wield power and influence and use it mercilessly to control people and their opinions. Unfortunately, many locals, because of lack of formal education and interest in learning things and ideas foreign, accept the status quo. The ironic thing is that many understand the "system" is broken but have no idea as to a solution and even to a greater extent feel that they are powerless to change anything.

Therefore, imo change can only happen as the youths of this country receive better education and exposure to new and different ideas and sense this can only happen over time I have just decided that there is no point in getting upset over something I have little control over.