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Thread: Haiti's RESTRICTIVE citizenship by blood (Jus sanguinis)

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    Default Haiti's RESTRICTIVE citizenship by blood (Jus sanguinis)

    I tried twice to post this in the Haitian citizenship thread, and the system said I did, but for whatever reasons neither post has appeared.

    According to Haiti's 1987 constitution (and as far as I know the newest one does NOT change it), Haiti not only restrict citizenship at birth to those with a Haitian parent. The Haitian parent must be NATIVE-born, that is, NOT a naturalized Haitian.

    It is of course possible to become a naturalized Haitian, but the naturalization does not seem to carry over to the descendants.

    Somehow, those scandalized by the fact that according to the Dominican Constitutional Court, the children of illegal residents do not qualify for Dominican citizenship at birth seem to have no problem with the fact that the children of Dominicans (or any foreigners) born in Haiti cannot get Haitian citizenship, even if the parents are legal permanent residents, and it seems even if the parents are naturalized Haitian citizens.

    Evidently consistency and fairness are not a high priority for some.

    See below.
    Quote Originally Posted by mountainannie View Post
    This is from the 1987 constitution.

    TITRE II
    De la Nationalité Haïtienne
    ARTICLE 10:

    Les règles relatives à la Nationalité Haïtienne sont déterminées par la Loi.

    ARTICLE 11:
    Possède la Nationalité Haïtienne d'origine, tout individu né d'un père haïtien ou d'une mère haïtienne qui eux-mêmes sont nés Haïtiens et n'avaient jamais renoncé à leur nationalité au moment de la naissance.


    ARTICLE 12:
    La Nationalité Haïtienne peut être acquise par la naturalisation.
    ....


    Note that Haitian citizenship is only granted to those WHO ARE BORN IN HAITI TO Either a Haitian mother or father...

    in other words, jus sangre and jus solis.. ...
    ....All of the children who have been born here in the Dominican Republic since 1987 to Haitian mothers and fathers do not have the rights of citizenship in Haiti except by naturalilzation.
    Sorry but you are completely wrong.
    Here is an "official" translation at Georgetown University:
    ARTICLE 11:
    Any person born of a Haitian father or Haitian mother who are themselves native-born Haitians and have never renounced their nationality possesses Haitian nationality at the time of birth.
    Those, they are ruling out children whose parents are NATURALIZED Haitians...those are the ones who do not get citizenship at birth...

    Nowhere is birth IN Haiti mentioned as a factor one way or another.

    Haiti: Constitution, 1987

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    Thank you for posting about the constitution and history matters pertaining to the DR and Haiti.

    Very informative and it's appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronzeallspice View Post
    Thank you for posting about the constitution and history matters pertaining to the DR and Haiti.

    Very informative and it's appreciated.
    my sentiments, exactly..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronzeallspice View Post
    Thank you for posting about the constitution and history matters pertaining to the DR and Haiti. Very informative and it's appreciated.
    Thanks. I feel I am just doing my part. There is just too much damaging misinformation on the subject. My main motivation to post here is to get the truth out on the Internet, so that optimistically people "googling" the subject, perhaps even members of the media, pick it up.
    Misinformation in conversational boards like this is actually expected. But when major newspapers are writing editorials containing falsehood, that is a serious problem. I hope things will change for the better.

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    The problem cuts both ways but I don't think there are a lot of Dominican Citizens trying to get into Haiti illegally. Most of the problem seems to fall on Haiti's shoulders because a large percentage of Haitians coming into the DR are undocumented to begin with. This is a problem that the Haitian gov does not seem to want to tackle. In the past they would just rather have people go to the DR to live. I think the DR was pushed to enforce this constitutional law because of Haiti's inability or inactivity to get there citizens documented correctly.

    LTSteve

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    The "International Community" should be outraged.

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    Yes, Virgo, I had corrected myself in a later post.. The issue that I had posted in a Haitian list serv is whether the children of Haitians who were not born in Haiti are entitled to citizenship in Haiti.. ie,. if the mother or father was born here? My reading of the Haitian Constitution has always been that the grandchildren were not entitled to citizenship.

    The DR had always said that Haitians born here had the rights of citizenship .. but I think that there was a change in the Haitian constitutions between 1965 and 1987 which made Haitian citizenship more restrictive.

    And, of course, if the parents are LEGAL citizens of another coutnry.. then .. well, up til now, that meant they had renounced Haitian citizenship. But now Haiti has dual citizenship, I believe, so things are different.

    very complicated. But it is going to have to be sorted out since the children born to Haitians here who do not have LEGAL residency.. ie.. ceudlas? right? are not going to be entitled to citizenship? or does the Constitution mean passports and citizenship?

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    Quote Originally Posted by windeguy View Post
    The "International Community" should be outraged.
    That is exactly the point. Double-standards...hypocrisy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainannie View Post
    Yes, Virgo, I had corrected myself in a later post.. The issue that I had posted in a Haitian list serv is whether the children of Haitians who were not born in Haiti are entitled to citizenship in Haiti.. ie,. if the mother or father was born here? My reading of the Haitian Constitution has always been that the grandchildren were not entitled to citizenship. .... But it is going to have to be sorted out since the children born to Haitians here who do not have LEGAL residency.. ie.. ceudlas? right? are not going to be entitled to citizenship? or does the Constitution mean passports and citizenship?
    Well you can read the same text I do...That Haitian constitution says nothing about birthplace that I can see, for or against anything...Being born inside/outside Haiti seems to have no relevance whatsoever to Haitian citizenship...Haitians have Haitian children EVERYWHERE...Non-Haitians have non-Haitian children EVERYWHERE...it's that simple. The restriction is that naturalization does not carry over to the next generation...If they did or didn't change this in the brand new constitution I cannot tell...Perhaps it has not yet made it to the Internet...

    The ONLY foreigners whose DR-born children are entitled to Dominican citizenship at birth are those with LEGAL PERMANENT residency (regardless of the parents' origin)..That is, no tourists, no students, no migrant workers, etc...no illegal residents of course.

    Foreigners with LEGAL PERMANENT residency are only affected if their Dominican-born children were born before the parents got LEGAL PERMANENT residency...those children are NOT Dominicans...It doesn't mean they'll be deported tomorrow...they are just not Dominicans.

    If you can read Spanish you can try downloading the text of the TC ruling...It has lots of interesting background information before the actual ruling.
    The ruling by itself is posted by Listin at:
    Sentencia TC/0168/13 Tribunal Constitucional - listindiario.com

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    here is the Georgetown translation.. "Any person born of a Haitian father or Haitian mother who are themselves native-born Haitians and have never renounced their nationality possesses Haitian nationality at the time of birth.
    "
    I do not think this is about being naturalized.. but about being BORN in HAITI, just as it says.
    So I do think that issue of jus solis figures into to the issue of Haitian citizenship. Up until the most recent constitutional changes,, which are still at the printers.. and while the rules on dual citizenship have been passed bthey have not been published. this was not a big issue. Most of the diaspora simply abandoned their Haitian citizenship for the citizenship in their new countries.

    but there is hardly a line for people who WANT Haitian citizenship. Except for the folks in the Diaspora who want to vote AND hold their foreign passports.. which the folks in Haiti do not want to let them do. Hence the delays at the printer of the new constitution.

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