Expat-Dominican Interaction

[jaguarbob]

Originally Posted by jackquontee

It's nice to hear that someone else understands. It just seems to me that I would be missing out on a great deal by limiting myself to non-Dominicans. I would love, more than anything else, to learn and adopt the language, the dance, the music, etc. I have seen some expats who have lived there for years and still struggle with the language, for instance. That, to me, is sad. But, to each his/her own.

I am an expat,male,have lived here several years and have a dominican family...who by the way come from a poor family...most of my friends are dominican,poor,and never have asked me for anything,they take me for who I am and I do the same.It is still amazing to me how they manage everyday life...I have an apt in SD but also have a dominican house in EL LImon,Samana...where I spend a lot of time,no running water,but electric most of the time...I have adapted to that and again,amazed at the true dominican people and their survival skills...and ,yes I do speak spanish,although it is with a gringo accent,but my friends and family love it...I only have a couple of gringo friends,one is in POP and the other in Las Terenas...I do like the north coast for a few days,but too many gringos for me...and tourists...El Limon is small,quiet and maybe 3 gringos in the whole town...but as you said,to each his own....I absolutely love DR!!!!And the people..
bob

[carina]

Originally Posted by jackquontee

Aahhhh......but I'm not a gringo.
In all seriousness, I understand what you're saying, and feel more at ease with the idea of being there. As usual, thanks for your help and advice.

You´ll be just fine here.
Stay out of the tourist traps, and explore the real society instead.
The lowlives and freeloaders are ( in a gringo-perspective ) hanging where the gringos are supposed to be, and so are usually the part of the expat community that likes the services or feeling that brings to a person, i.e feeling young again, easy friendships with less responsibilties, cheap love etc etc.

There are people with good values in both the expat community and in the general society. Some just don´t bother to explore that part, as the other one is more easy ( i.e language, the time it takes to make friends, understanding, learning... )

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by Bogey

when I lived overseas for a year or so, I made it a POINT to avoid all tourists, foreigners, etc.

That makes sense. Why be in a country without learning a bit about their culure, food, customs, etc?

Originally Posted by Bogey

If I want to talk to Americans, why would I travel to the DR or anywhere else to do that?

Well, one of the reasons you might like to, is they are handy for getting much needed info, when you are a newbie, and generally, ex-pats are not your everyday average boring shlubs, and often are a lot more entertaing than most people you could meet in your own home town,

Originally Posted by Bogey

Not that I won't talk to any, you always find certain people you get along with for whatever reason, but as a general rule I tend to avoid speaking English when overseas.

This is only applicable to multi-lingual people.

Originally Posted by Bogey

yes, it can be difficult, but it does wonders for the language you're trying to learn (in this case Spanish). And getting friends in one's peer group is very easy, especially in Latin America, even when your language skills are still a bit behind.

It is unquestionably the best way to learn the language, but, at the end of the day, when your head is throbbing from concentrating on every word you said throughout the day, it's nice to sit back and relax with your friends, and shoot the breeze in your native tongue.

Originally Posted by Bogey

I'm speaking from a somewhat younger person's reference, I do notice most of the retired expats, etc tend to hang out with each other and I suppose this makes a bit more sense.

There is a certain truth to that.
The younger crowd has not yet discovered how incompatible they might be, plus they might be on the "learn the language" mission.
Also, the long term ex-pats who are socializing with their Dominican friends, are not in the places you are, so you don't see them.

Originally Posted by Bogey

Put me squarely in the camp of the original poster.
If I want to talk to Americans, no need to travel to the DR (or anywhere else) in order to do that.

You are forgetting some very important factors.
Most people do NOT move here to try to become Dominicans or to expand their bank of friends, amongst the Dominicans.
Most people have very different agendas, like the clement weather, the ocean, easy life style, freedom, less stress, economics, fresh air, etc.

Originally Posted by Bogey

(that's not even taking into account the fact that a significant amount of tourists, Americans, etc are quite annoying)

Jackquontree was asking about the ex-pats, and not the tourists.
The tourists are a whole different group with different agendas, and are here for such a short time, that it would be difficult to develop any long term relationships.

[jackquontee]

Originally Posted by Rocky

Are you kidding?
Your questions are valid, cleas & concise, and informative to others who wonder the same thing.
It's not a question I've seen asked before, so it's a lot more gratifying to take the time to answer, than another sankie question, or "what will the weather be like in March, when I come on vacation?".
I think Larry should get a hold of your post and put it into the info & data section he has been gathering.
And Very Merry Christmas to you.

Thanks for validating what I thought was an interesting and legitimate question. However, I think I have to be very careful sometimes about what I post and, sometimes more importantly, how I post. I try to post in a way that will illicit some serious and thought provoking responses. As I said previously, I am sincerely interested in learning.

I'm sorry, I forgot to wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas as well.

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by jackquontee

I think I have to be very careful sometimes about what I post and, sometimes more importantly, how I post.

We all know exactly what you mean.
Some people lurk forever, for fear of being jumped on their very first post.

[abe]

will probably share your values and a similar outlook toward the DR and its people --or they won't be your friends. Duh!

It seems to me that there will be a predictable selection process that will go on. You will find friends from different segments of the population and, just like you did at home, the ones you spend the most time with will have shared values and some shared interests.

If you love baseball, you might put up with someone who is, for example, louder and brassier than you might be, just for the shared experience of the love of the game. Whether that relationship "takes" beyond the foul lines remains to be seen, but it's not going to be much different from at home. It's the core values that form the center of friendships.

The other secret to the whole friend dynamic is going to be--without question--just how fluent you become in Spanish. I cannot imagine any factor more important to relationships (over the long run) than language.

I would wager that some of the "older ex-pats" that are being referred to would be behaving differently if they had learned Spanish when they were younger. Why they didn't has many root causes, but the facility with the language (or lack of it) colors everything.

So use your time before you move to become as fluent as possible and the light will go on in your head (and your life) a lot more easily. And, from what I have seen, given the power outages, you will want to have enough battery juice stored up in your head to get you through the dark spots.

Good luck and this is a very interesting and important topic.

[jackquontee]

Originally Posted by abe

your ex-pat friends, once you move here.....
will probably share your values and a similar outlook toward the DR and its people --or they won't be your friends. Duh!

Abe, if you re-read the title of my original post, it has nothing to do with expat to expat interaction. I am well on my way in that regard, because of our shared interests. However, I also find it possible to be friends with people who do not have a similar outlook as mine.

I was more curious about the interaction between expats and Dominicans (and I'm not talking about whores and sankies/hustlers), and whether or not this translates into real friendships and socialization outside of doing normal day to day business. Of course, many people shop at Dominican stores, deal with Dominican utility service reps, etc., etc. But, is this the extent of the interaction, was more my question.

[Rocky]

Originally Posted by abe

It seems to me that there will be a predictable selection process that will go on. You will find friends from different segments of the population and, just like you did at home, the ones you spend the most time with will have shared values and some shared interests.

If you love baseball, you might put up with someone who is, for example, louder and brassier than you might be, just for the shared experience of the love of the game. Whether that relationship "takes" beyond the foul lines remains to be seen, but it's not going to be much different from at home.

It was like that for me when I first moved here, but now it has changed, to what you write below...

Originally Posted by abe

It's the core values that form the center of friendships.

Who the people are, good guys or bad guys, matters to me a whole heck of a lot more than it did before, and I wouldn't be caught dead with certain scam artists in this town, no matter how many common interests or activities we shared.

[jackquontee]

Originally Posted by jaguarbob

I am an expat,male,have lived here several years and have a dominican family...who by the way come from a poor family...most of my friends are dominican,poor,and never have asked me for anything,they take me for who I am and I do the same.It is still amazing to me how they manage everyday life...I have an apt in SD but also have a dominican house in EL LImon,Samana...where I spend a lot of time,no running water,but electric most of the time...I have adapted to that and again,amazed at the true dominican people and their survival skills...and ,yes I do speak spanish,although it is with a gringo accent,but my friends and family love it...I only have a couple of gringo friends,one is in POP and the other in Las Terenas...I do like the north coast for a few days,but too many gringos for me...and tourists...El Limon is small,quiet and maybe 3 gringos in the whole town...but as you said,to each his own....I absolutely love DR!!!!And the people..
bob

Bob, one thing that I have always found appealing is an eclectic group of people. About 10 years ago I used to travel down to South Beach, Miami, and this is the honest to God's truth, just to sit on Ocean Drive and people watch. I like a mix of people. I think if I found myself in any location where one person is the same as the other as the other as the other, I would be bored to death and never return. I think you are a very fortunate person in that you seem to have found your niche.

[abe]

That's why I just mentioned the ex-pat component briefly and moved on. The bulk of my response was applicable to Dominicans and ex-pats both--or at least I intended it to be.