Dominican women and cheating

[POPNYChic]

Originally Posted by SKing

Are you 100% Dominican or 100% American or 50/50? These are your own words honey, I didn't write them you did...
SHALENA

i was born in NYC, from dominican parents. spent my infancy and toddler years jetting between POP and NYC. elementary school half in POP and half in NYC. middle school in NYC. high school in POP. college in NYC. get it now?

and once again, your initial response to my post was a watered down "wth do you know". you got the same back. dont dish out what you cant take. apparently you thought YOU could do it but god forbid someone do it back. ha.

while you, again, choose to be condescending about my efforts, i will sleep quite well at night. i do my part and always will. doesnt matter what you think or if you havent done a thing, yourself, to be talking. clearly it doesnt affect you anyway and you obviously didnt wanna hear anything contrary to your own blurred perception, so "educating you" is not a priority for me.

you also didnt respond to my attempt at reconciling so...what does that say about you? like i said, oh well.

[Lambada]

For those interested, DR1's mountainannie wrote an informative article about this subject last November:
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Marching Against Machismo - IPS ipsnews.net

I suppose I had been living here fulltime for about 7 years before I started to get a handle on the size of the problem here. I found my Dominican women friends didn't really want to talk about it, until I had 'proved my worth' i.e. I was a gringa who had really made this country my home. Now I have been here a further 10 years & am still learning. There is no benefit for a Dominican woman in overcoming the shame factor and sharing this sort of info with a foreigner, unless that foreigner is a true friend. And true friendships in this country take years.

[mountainannie]

Originally Posted by Lambada

For those interested, DR1's mountainannie wrote an informative article about this subject last November:
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC: Marching Against Machismo - IPS ipsnews.net

I suppose I had been living here fulltime for about 7 years before I started to get a handle on the size of the problem here. I found my Dominican women friends didn't really want to talk about it, until I had 'proved my worth' i.e. I was a gringa who had really made this country my home. Now I have been here a further 10 years & am still learning. There is no benefit for a Dominican woman in overcoming the shame factor and sharing this sort of info with a foreigner, unless that foreigner is a true friend. And true friendships in this country take years.

You are right, Lambada, that it is not a topic that Dominicanas are going to talk about easily with anyone. And the posters who dismiss the problem by saying that it is "all over the world"... are well... all I can is there are high heels and there is foot binding.

I was with a couple of young Columbianas who came here as interns for a year and who simply could NOT believe the machismo here. They were stunned.

After I wrote this article I was really troubled by it since really, of course, it is the mother's who perpetrate this. But for many of them, their sons are the only men they are ever going to have whom they can count on... the husbands can leave, will have lots of other women, etc.... but if they hold their sons close, treat him like a king, perhaps the son will provide for them.

Just speculating... Not sure of the reasons. But definitely the problem here is severe.

[las2137]

Originally Posted by mountainannie

After I wrote this article I was really troubled by it since really, of course, it is the mother's who perpetrate this. But for many of them, their sons are the only men they are ever going to have whom they can count on... the husbands can leave, will have lots of other women, etc.... but if they hold their sons close, treat him like a king, perhaps the son will provide for them.

Very interesting observation, MA. (And interesting article!) Puts my earlier post in a different light.

Originally Posted by las2137

From what I can see, it's cultural and handed down over the generations, to both men and women.

An American friend I had here in SDQ was engaged to marry a Dominican. She made it clear from the get-go that she would not tolerate cheating. He cheated anyway and the friend broke up with him immediately.

His family, with whom she was close, did contact her... but to tell her she was being unreasonable. His mother, at one point her future suegra, said, "This is just what men do, you have to get used to it. Now get over it and take him back." (BTW, he was from a prominent family with tons of money, so this wasn't a "trap the gringa" situation.)

The guy who cheated had a sister. I'm sure the mother taught her the same thing...

Perhaps the mother wanted to intervene on behalf of her son, to please or indulge him.

[FYI: The organization I work for has a project with one of the Dominican NGOs mentioned in MA's article. According to the director, there is only ONE domestic violence shelter in the entire country. (I don't know if she meant state-funded or privately-funded, I'll have to double-check.) Their organization CANNOT handle the overwhelming need. ]

[POPNYChic]

its just that all women are raised to simply accept men will cheat and treat you however they want. afterall, if they DIDNT accept it, what options would they truly have, outside of gringos? lol so naturally they tell their daughters the same. if theres anything thats frowned upon in DR, its a spinster LMAO women who dont get married are often seen as "pathetic" because "no one wanted them". having a man is seen as validation of your worth as a woman so they go thru great lengths to keep those men.

the crux is in the fact that they teach their sons to do it too. but if you think about how all their fathers, uncles, brothers, etc do it...why would they think thats out of the norm?

teaching women to put up with it, in their eyes is teaching a girl to survive. and teaching men to do it, is seen as teaching them to be "real men".

the men are pressured to cheat and be controlling...otherwise they are called pariguayo, soso, manso, mamita or even worse in their eyes: pajaro....if they dont comply, they lose respect from their fellow men. thus, women are taught that a "real" man is controlling because they "care about you" and that cheating is just inevitable. its a cycle thats been going on for ages.

the few dominican men i know who arent controlling cheaters are in their 30's and unmarried....when i ask why they say the women say theyre too "soft" and "suspect"...as in...possibly gay. in other words, in dominican society, for men, it just doesnt pay to be good!

also, im not surprised theres only one domestic violence shelter, as in all my years i have never heard anyone mention such a thing. pretty sure most women dont even know it exists! *makes mental note of something i would like to consider when i get my finances in order*

btw when i say "they" i mean "us dominicans" lol i just have a unique perspective as both an insider AND outsider due to my zigzagging upbringing, so it sounds strange when i try to vocalize it...

[Marianopolita]

Originally Posted by SKing

Gracias, Marianopolita...I appreciate always your posts and I listen to you because you can disagree with a person without being rude and condescending. When I return from POP to Santiago, I will read the links you have provided and maybe enlighten myself. People miss the chance to educate because they are so busy being disrespectful and discourteous. But as I said, thanks again for the links. Always the teacher, you!
SHALENA

Thanks Shalena. I definitely want to stay away from the concept of teaching on a message board but if I have some helpful knowledge that can be shared I will post it. Here on DR1 board posters clash all the time. Some cases are justifiable whereas others are misunderstandings or misconceptions of each other. As long as it does not get personal meaning calling a poster a name or a direct insult, one has to take a post for what it is. If a person posts something for everyone to see it’s fair game and open to criticism IMO.

In the thread in 2005 on domestic violence, I posted the power point presentation by CONAPLUVI which is the group/ association that was heading up the campaign against domestic violence. As expected the link is no longer valid but it’s easy to research their current information and where they are today regarding this serious social ill in the DR. I have selected two links (one is a newspaper article) for you to read. You may not be interested in the full document but certain sections will certainly speak to what’s happening to women in the DR. The links I provided in my previous post were just newspaper articles from various DR papers that are read daily by many Dominicans. Domestic violence is like the 'order of the day'.

CONAPLUVI propone Plan Nacional de Emergencia contra la violencia intrafamiliar y de género

http://www.paho.org/Spanish/AD/GE/ModeloRD2.pdf

As a woman, I think I need to be aware of violence against women of any kind whether it affects me directly or not because surely in my walks of life I will run into a woman who is or women who are victims and I would like to be able to point them in the right direction in order to get help and counselling.

All for now.



-Marianopolita.

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by mountainannie

all I can is there are high heels and there is foot binding.

And wooden clogs and welly boots.............

Just a few references so people have easy access to read up: the Amnesty International Report April 2009 said 'Violence against women continued to be widespread. In July the Public Prosecutor of Santo Domingo Province called the level of domestic violence in the Dominican Republic “alarming”. According to official statistics, between January and August, 133 women were killed by their current or former partners. A report entitled Critical Path of Dominican Women Survivors of Gender Violence, issued in June jointly by several Dominican women’s rights NGOs, found that the great majority of survivors of gender-based violence were re-victimized by the justice system. It found that a high percentage of victims abandon the legal process and highlighted the lack of judicial personnel trained to deal with the issue. ' (stats will be from 2008).
Dominican Republic | Amnesty International Report 2009

Full report - see page 5 for the problem & 9 for the recommendations:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/as...70022009en.pdf

I think possibly the shelter las2137 is referring to is the one set up in 2001 by Fundación Familia Sana:
Domestic violence in the Dominican Republic: An abused women's shelter

Since then, a number have come into existence; we had one in Puerto Plata inaugurated in April 2008.
Puerto Plata Digital
There is a section of the Procuraduria devoted to victims of violence. Useful phone numbers here:
DNAV - República Dominicana
Some of the centres can be accessed here (these offices are the frontline offices, not the shelters, not always wise to post their addresses writ large):
DNAV - República Dominicana

Procuraduría Fiscal del Distrito Nacional

Procuraduría Fiscal del Distrito Nacional - Centro de Asistencia a Sobrevivientes de Violencia


Contact numbers for victims in various towns:
ContactoVictimas

DependenciasVictimas

http://mujer.gob.do/LinkClick.aspx?f...bid=90&mid=585

and some general reading:
Addressing Gender-Based Violence in the Latin American and Caribbean Region: A Critical Review of Interventions 2004
http://www-wds.worldbank.org/externa...0014104752.pdf

Gender-Based Violence: A Price Too High - Chap 7 of UNFPA report 2005, scroll halfway down:
UNFPA State of World Population 2005

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC PRESENTS FIFTH PERIODIC REPORT ON EFFORTS TO COMPLY WITH WOMEN’S ANTI-DISCRIMINATION CONVENTION 2004
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/wom1458.doc.htm

OK I appreciate this post is about violence, (size of problem & some resources for dealing with it) and not about 'cheating' so I'll butt out now. I do occasionally get told about violence but I wouldn't dream of asking about cheating. Just wanted to post some resources in case people find themselves trying to help a victim or trying to get the word out that there are people she can go to. The most clued up groups about all of this are the Dominican womens' groups in Santo Domingo.

[AnnaC]

Thank you Lambada, Marianpolita and Mountainannie for the great info to this important topic.

[Mr. Lu]

Interesting thread and very disheartening at the same time. Makes me ask a lot of questions in regards to being a male in this society.

Aside from the bickering and back talk, this has been a very informative and important thread.

But I ask, what are the answers and solutions, if any? I know the context of domestic abuse in the DR is very particular due to a variety of reasons, but where does the change come?

It is interesting to note than even on a site like DR1, where very little is off limits, this topic has rarely come up, in depth, at least to my limited knowledge.


Carry on


Mr. Lu

[Matilda]

Whilst I know that domestic violence - men against women is a very big problem here, and I am in no way denigrating this, there is also a severe problem with violence by women.

I have seen several cases where women have attacked other women - one just two days ago where she threw boiling water in her face and this lady has major burns to her face and her upper body. Also have seen several cases where women have been injured by acid or machetes - all by other women. Their jealously shows no bounds. At the same time I have seen several injuries to men by women ranging from being shot, to burns (pouring trementina over the man and setting him alight), to machete injuries and of the course the perennial beating with a saucepan.

The major problem is one of a total inability to communicate and discuss issues. You have a problem - get violent, don't talk. And in my experience dominican women are fanatically jealous. If they think you are after their man (usually with very few grounds at all) they will come at you like a banshee. Interestingly they also expect their man to check up on them all the times as well, and they expect to be beaten if they do not toe the line. And as one said to me - if he doesn't beat me I know he doesn't love me. It is an expression of love!!!!

No idea how we sort that one!!!

matilda