Helping you understand....one N. American's perspective

[owl41]

The quote below was pulled from the thread, "Help me understand." I have reposted it here because it helps provide the background for my mini-essay below.

Originally Posted by lexi

Now didn't you say he married her, lived with her for a few years, supported her and "their" family? He got fed up after his business went badly and he took off?

Am I missing this??? I don't care that she had 4 kids by 2 different men before - he married HER and lived with her and obviously made her family his since he was looking after and living with them...

Her husband abandoned her when times got tough and I am surprised no one else made a comment about this? If they are still married he should financially support her. If this was in Canada he would have to.

Whether she has a novio now is not the real topic here.

When the going got tough...HE got going!

It's too bad this didn't happen to him in North America as he would be paying whether the ex had a novio or not after he abandoned her. If they are still married he should be coughing up some of that money - which he obviously has if he is still vacationing there only a few months later!

I have NO sympathy for him! A real man would take care of his responsibilities. He just thinks he can get away with it because she is a Dominicano and not a Gringo! Shame on him!

One of the many problems with Americans from the states (at least IMHO.... I am one so I can speak on this) is that we are so overwhelemed on a day to day basis that when we come to places like DR we "leave our brains at home" (as someone noted earlier)....problem in this situation is that the American man also decided that since he wasn't home, he didn't have to abide by rules or culture imposed on him by his motherland. It's is not self-righteous to say that if he were in the US he would have to support her. This is only meant to illuminate the point that the dominicana, right or wrong, is fully within her rights to expect him to provide for her, especially if he married her! In the US, whether she's a hooker or just a poor girl, his responsibility to his wife doesn't change until there's a divorce decree! She could be the craziest perra sucia on the block, but if he married her, he cannot just abandon her. The courts here would slam him for such an egregious act. So problem 1 is Americans leave their "good manners" at home

Problem 2, and forgive me in advance, is the media. I haven't spent a great deal of time in DR, but enough to see that there's a decent amount of American television there. And obviously, as is our culture, Americans are depicted as never having enough of anything. The point about this is that it is immediately obvious to any observer that Americans always want more. And even if the specific gringo/gringa you are dealing with doesn't, why not attribute to this person the characteristics that all Americans seem to have.... or want???? You don't have to be educated or smart to figure this out. In fact, being street smart gives you the greater advantage in this area.

Finally, problem 3... and the most important, even with the best intentions, we create the expectation. I am currently dating a Dominican man that I met on vacation. Meeting him was completely unexpected for me as, I was on vacation to get away from everyone and everything....including an recently ex'd boyfriend of 6 years... (and hence the reason I was not looking for a hook-up -- I am not one of those women who believe the best way to get over a man is to get a new one).....It was, and in many ways still is, a whirlwind romance for me... I love his masculinity, I love the way I feel when I'm with him, and he's easy to love... But I have to believe that this is the feeling a lot of Americans get when they encounter the beautiful people of the Dominican Republic.... I believe that generally speaking, Dominican people are easier to love then Americans....we're so self-centered, self-conscious and material-minded..... it's nice to feel (operative word being feel) like someone can finally love us for who we are and not what we bring to the table. It's not exactly naivete that leads us here, but the burning urge of needing to leave the "enough is never enough" mentality of our homeland. And so taking these two things together, we are vulnerable here. We feel that whatever I need to deal with or take care of to maintain this love here is worth it....what ever money I dole out to go back and forth, whatever help I can lend, it's for someone who has made me feel in a way I have never felt before (and sincerely, not in some overly dramatic fantasized way)... and we have effectively put ourselves in a situation where it would be unreasonable on the part of the Dominican partner involved to expect that we wouldn't ALWAYS provide for them.... and here's the kicker...EVEN IF THEY NEVER ASKED FOR IT! It is not sufficient or even reasonable (in most cases) to expect the relationship to take the same form or appearance of a relationship with someone at home because we start on unequal planes and I think, as a general rule, would allow -- or at the very leat expect -- the same or similar kind of behavior from an unequally planed relationship with someone in the states. When you create the expectation, IN ANY RELATIONSHIP, we are ultimately responsible for the expectation we created.

Because I anticipate skepticism or questions about my own relationship I feel I should add that I have learned in my own relationship that because we create the expectation, we also need to set the boundaries. When I first found this forum I suddenly had a lot of doubts about the sincerity of my relationship but after a lot of thinking, reading and talking to as many people as possible, I have concluded that the real answer is TIME (for me anyway). I am a stubborn person and unfortunately, I know that the way that I learn is from my own mistakes, not those of others.... bottom line is if I am the victim of a sanky, I've had plenty of forewarning (and I've protected myself as much as I could). If it isn't.....woooo hooo!

[frank recktenwald]

Originally Posted by owl41

The quote below was pulled from the thread, "Help me understand." I have reposted it here because it helps provide the background for my mini-essay below.



One of the many problems with Americans from the states (at least IMHO.... I am one so I can speak on this) is that we are so overwhelemed on a day to day basis that when we come to places like DR we "leave our brains at home" (as someone noted earlier)....problem in this situation is that the American man also decided that since he wasn't home, he didn't have to abide by rules or culture imposed on him by his motherland. It's is not self-righteous to say that if he were in the US he would have to support her. This is only meant to illuminate the point that the dominicana, right or wrong, is fully within her rights to expect him to provide for her, especially if he married her! In the US, whether she's a hooker or just a poor girl, his responsibility to his wife doesn't change until there's a divorce decree! She could be the craziest perra sucia on the block, but if he married her, he cannot just abandon her. The courts here would slam him for such an egregious act. So problem 1 is Americans leave their "good manners" at home

Problem 2, and forgive me in advance, is the media. I haven't spent a great deal of time in DR, but enough to see that there's a decent amount of American television there. And obviously, as is our culture, Americans are depicted as never having enough of anything. The point about this is that it is immediately obvious to any observer that Americans always want more. And even if the specific gringo/gringa you are dealing with doesn't, why not attribute to this person the characteristics that all Americans seem to have.... or want???? You don't have to be educated or smart to figure this out. In fact, being street smart gives you the greater advantage in this area.

Finally, problem 3... and the most important, even with the best intentions, we create the expectation. I am currently dating a Dominican man that I met on vacation. Meeting him was completely unexpected for me as, I was on vacation to get away from everyone and everything....including an recently ex'd boyfriend of 6 years... (and hence the reason I was not looking for a hook-up -- I am not one of those women who believe the best way to get over a man is to get a new one).....It was, and in many ways still is, a whirlwind romance for me... I love his masculinity, I love the way I feel when I'm with him, and he's easy to love... But I have to believe that this is the feeling a lot of Americans get when they encounter the beautiful people of the Dominican Republic.... I believe that generally speaking, Dominican people are easier to love then Americans....we're so self-centered, self-conscious and material-minded..... it's nice to feel (operative word being feel) like someone can finally love us for who we are and not what we bring to the table. It's not exactly naivete that leads us here, but the burning urge of needing to leave the "enough is never enough" mentality of our homeland. And so taking these two things together, we are vulnerable here. We feel that whatever I need to deal with or take care of to maintain this love here is worth it....what ever money I dole out to go back and forth, whatever help I can lend, it's for someone who has made me feel in a way I have never felt before (and sincerely, not in some overly dramatic fantasized way)... and we have effectively put ourselves in a situation where it would be unreasonable on the part of the Dominican partner involved to expect that we wouldn't ALWAYS provide for them.... and here's the kicker...EVEN IF THEY NEVER ASKED FOR IT! It is not sufficient or even reasonable (in most cases) to expect the relationship to take the same form or appearance of a relationship with someone at home because we start on unequal planes and I think, as a general rule, would allow -- or at the very leat expect -- the same or similar kind of behavior from an unequally planed relationship with someone in the states. When you create the expectation, IN ANY RELATIONSHIP, we are ultimately responsible for the expectation we created.

Because I anticipate skepticism or questions about my own relationship I feel I should add that I have learned in my own relationship that because we create the expectation, we also need to set the boundaries. When I first found this forum I suddenly had a lot of doubts about the sincerity of my relationship but after a lot of thinking, reading and talking to as many people as possible, I have concluded that the real answer is TIME (for me anyway). I am a stubborn person and unfortunately, I know that the way that I learn is from my own mistakes, not those of others.... bottom line is if I am the victim of a sanky, I've had plenty of forewarning (and I've protected myself as much as I could). If it isn't.....woooo hooo!

So what's the message?

[owl41]

Originally Posted by frank recktenwald

So what's the message?

Did you read "Help me understand?" The message is we (foreigners, but specifically americnas for the purposes of this post) are responsible for the expectation we create in our dominican partners to expect us to take care and be responsible for them... I could have just said that, yes, but it wouldn't have been as much fun!

And Pig... sorry for the long post... I tried to warn you by using the words "mini essay" LOL.... read it later if you want to... I just needed to get this off my chest. Thanks for trying though!

[bob saunders]

Originally Posted by owl41

Did you read "Help me understand?" The message is we (foreigners, but specifically americnas for the purposes of this post) are responsible for the expectation we create in our dominican partners to expect us to take care and be responsible for them... I could have just said that, yes, but it wouldn't have been as much fun!

And Pig... sorry for the long post... I tried to warn you by using the words "mini essay" LOL.... read it later if you want to... I just needed to get this off my chest. Thanks for trying though!

The expectation is already there, at least for most the females. As far as whether an ex should take of his former wife; it differs on a case by case basis. She should be entitled to her rights under Dominican law and he should provide support for his children. Happily married to an independent Dominicana.

[El Rey de Mangu]

Originally Posted by frank recktenwald

So what's the message?

RENT EVERYTHING (under someone else's name)! LOL

[Yayow]

An ex pat friend of mine who has lived here for over 12 years now, once said something like this to me, in regards to Dominicans and Dominicanas specifically and how they look at foreigners when they come here.

"They expect you to do for them, because you have more than they do, they feel it is part of your responsibility."

I don't think there is a simpler way to put it.

[frank recktenwald]

Originally Posted by Yayow

An ex pat friend of mine who has lived here for over 12 years now, once said something like this to me, in regards to Dominicans and Dominicanas specifically and how they look at foreigners when they come here.

"They expect you to do for them, because you have more than they do, they feel it is part of your responsibility."

I don't think there is a simpler way to put it.

This is not only with foreigners it's the same with their own, it's their culture!!!

[dalila05]

also whatever you doing,its quite hard to get a genuine thanks.
still now when i say thanks to my husband ,he is laughing,because he is not used of this word.

[yacht chef]

yes, why never a simple thanks that goes for any situation not just mail -female.

[TexasGringo]

expectations- while i've never been to DR- i've been to colombia and CR...

interestingly- i find it interesting lol- that we americans get apalled when we go to do a place like the DR meet someone and have a great week long whirlwind romance with someone far sexier than we likely could get (in far faster time as well) here stateside.

we find something like this and we are then at some point confused how someone would 'expect' us to give them money.

we seem to forget when we travel to a place of milk and honey and the sex flows free that we have forgotten that we EXPECT to get great sex and whatever...great love...great attention, etc- for free...