DR1ers and their Social Class

[cobraboy]

Isn't there, overall in the big picture, a correlation between education and income? True, there are those with little education and high incomes, and some with extensive educations with lower income, but overall, the higher the education, the higher the income is universal, even in controlled (i.e. socialist/Marxist/Communist) societies.

[NALs]

Originally Posted by asopao

Where the hell Nals is connecting " money and education" as " class"??

I have been asking myself the same question. I have yet to see one post where I referred to money/education equals class.

Originally Posted by asopao

so, an " executive" with a degree is to be " heard" by the " lower classes" more than me , just because he is an " executive"?? what kind of stupid garbage is this??

that might be the case in a poor country like DR, but not in industrialized countries.

Not in industrialized countries? Ha!

Please explain to me why the people calling the shots in government, big business, the media, and other institutions in industrialize are not "common" folks.

And no, an executive is to not be heard by the "lower classes" for simply being an executive, but rather his is often heard by the lower classes because he is their meal ticket.

The reason why he is in the position of dictating the direction a company takes is because of his educational merits. That entails higher status and such status is recognized by everyone, more so the people who are below him.

Don't believe me? Ask yourself the following questions:

Who has higher status, a police officer or a civilian? Who obeys who?

Who has higher status, a teacher or his students? Who obeys who?

Who has higher status, an employer or an employee? Who obeys who?

Who has higher status, a parent or his children? Who obeys who?

Originally Posted by asopao

I might know more history and social studies than that " executive".

At the end of the day it's not how much a person knows that really counts. Better is a person who knows where to get accurate information, put such to work, and make something productive out of it.

I pitty the person with much knowledge and does little with it!

-NALs

[NALs]

Originally Posted by cobraboy

Isn't there, overall in the big picture, a correlation between education and income? True, there are those with little education and high incomes, and some with extensive educations with lower income, but overall, the higher the education, the higher the income is universal, even in controlled (i.e. socialist/Marxist/Communist) societies.

Cobraboy,

I will simply tell you what other DR1ers have told me through the years.

"Remember, everyone on DR1 is not a graduate of Harvard"

Or to put it in Chiri's way of saying things: There are smart people and then there are smart people.

The two don't always meet eye to eye.
-----------------------------------------
To answer your question, yes you are correct!

And the beauty of this is that the percentage of college educated people in the US is actually decreasing, but demand is growing. Guess what's going to happen to wages of college educated peoples?

Guess what's going to happen to income inequality between the college educated and those with less education?

These are some interesting times.

-NALs

[cobraboy]

NALs, to add to your comments, more women are attending college, by a growing %, than men. There will come a day when women are the engines of economic growth and captains of industry beyond what their role is today.

The times, they are a changin'...

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by NALs

Don't believe me? Ask yourself the following questions:

Who has higher status, a police officer or a civilian? Who obeys who?

Who has higher status, a teacher or his students? Who obeys who?

Who has higher status, an employer or an employee? Who obeys who?

Who has higher status, a parent or his children? Who obeys who? -NALs

That's interesting. I haven't seen social status linked to obedience before. Would organisations which enforce obedience (like the military for example) thus have a higher status than those which allow, for example, workers' collectives some decision making power?

[NALs]

Originally Posted by Lambada

That's interesting. I haven't seen social status linked to obedience before. Would organisations which enforce obedience (like the military for example) thus have a higher status than those which allow, for example, workers' collectives some decision making power?

Well, it depends what we mean by the word status.

If status means good manners, well spoken, etc then it doesn't matter who holds the power or influence.

However, if by status we mean people with power or have influence over those who exercise power, then yes, organizations which enforce obedience have a higher status vs other organizations, individuals, etc who have no access to such power, but are directly affected by such.

For example, let's take the police-civilian analogy. Let's assume that corruption is very low, thus the police-civilian power structure remains in place without coersion which would cause certain civilians to receive preferential treatment by the police.

Under such assumption, if you are driving on a road and after a while of driving at a steady speed you notice a police vehicle with a cop inside parked on the side of the road, the automatic reaction for you will be to check the speedometer, release your foot from the gas pedal and place it over the brakes pedal and perhaps press on it to slow down a bit.

In such situation, the police officer has control over you by his mere presence, which poses a threat to you and thus, you adjust your behavior.

On the other hand, let's say you are parked on the side of a road and a police officer is driving, in fact speeding down the same road. Guess what? The presence of your vehicle with you inside parked on the side of the road will have absolutely no effect on the behavior of the police, he will continue speeding and pass by you as if you are unimportant.

What's the difference? Why do you feel the necessity to adjust your behavior in the presence of a police officer while the police officer doesn't feel the same in your presence?

There are several factors at work, among them is included status.

The police officer is given respect, is obeyed, and in some cases feared by civilians. The police officer is at a higher status than the civilian, because the police is enforcing the laws on behalf of the state apparatus.

You, on the other hand, are a civilian. Your status vis-a-vis a police officer is lower. You are subject to his influence and power while he is not to yours.

What do people of higher status tend to do so others recognize their position? They distinguish themselves from the masses through various ways including consumption of certain types of goods. In the case of a police officer, he wears a uniform which immediately lets everyone knows that even though he is a human like everyone else, he is not in an equal position to everyone else at that moment in time.

Because of that, because of the differences in status, those who are below him give him respect, obey his orders, etc.

The few who challenge his authority will feel tremendous pressure to comply with what we can call the "status quo" between a police officer and a civilian.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can also use DR1 as an example. For example, why do people put attention to anything Robert or Dolores says here, particularly when its regarding what members are allowed to post? It's a similar class system at work. Robert and Dolores are the elites, the moderators are members of that elite who are chosen by the founders. Then there are the non-moderating members who are divided between influential members (those who have access to the "elite") and the uninfluential members (those who post, but regardless what they say, it will have no effect on how DR1 is run). Then there are the "low class" of DR1 which is composed of newbies, members who are not taken seriously, etc). Finally, there are the "excluded" who are the lurkers, they take absolutely no part on DR1 other than watching everything while not being engaged.

You will notice that if a moderator is dissatisfied with a member, such member will be given a notice and if he disobey the notice, he will eventually be banned or eliminated. However, if members are dissatisfied with a moderator, the removal of such is dependent on what the other moderators think of him. In both instances, the decision lies in the moderators (ie. the elites) while some DR1 members have some influence over some moderators while others have absolutely no influence. In either case, the moderators have the "power" and the rest of DR1 don't.

To become a member of the "moderators club", it depends on what Robert or other moderators think of such potential member. They hold the power to include and exclude whomever they want. In fact, Robert and Dolores hold the ultimate power and moderators come a close second, but under the watchful eyes of the founders. Everybody else is under the watchful eyes of the moderators.

Despite the obvious difference in status of various members on the DR1 community, this site is among the best and most efficient out there. There are more "egalitarian" sites out there with no moderators, in fact everybody is an equal and they function in a less civilized manner.

The same applies to societies at large, more or less.

-NALs

[A.Hidalgo]

Originally Posted by NALs

Well, it depends what we mean by the word status.

If status means good manners, well spoken, etc then it doesn't matter who holds the power or influence.

However, if by status we mean people with power or have influence over those who exercise power, then yes, organizations which enforce obedience have a higher status vs other organizations, individuals, etc who have no access to such power, but are directly affected by such.

For example, let's take the police-civilian analogy. Let's assume that corruption is very low, thus the police-civilian power structure remains in place without coersion which would cause certain civilians to receive preferential treatment by the police.

Under such assumption, if you are driving on a road and after a while of driving at a steady speed you notice a police vehicle with a cop inside parked on the side of the road, the automatic reaction for you will be to check the speedometer, release your foot from the gas pedal and place it over the brakes pedal and perhaps press on it to slow down a bit.

In such situation, the police officer has control over you by his mere presence, which poses a threat to you and thus, you adjust your behavior.

On the other hand, let's say you are parked on the side of a road and a police officer is driving, in fact speeding down the same road. Guess what? The presence of your vehicle with you inside parked on the side of the road will have absolutely no effect on the behavior of the police, he will continue speeding and pass by you as if you are unimportant.

What's the difference? Why do you feel the necessity to adjust your behavior in the presence of a police officer while the police officer doesn't feel the same in your presence?

There are several factors at work, among them is included status.

The police officer is given respect, is obeyed, and in some cases feared by civilians. The police officer is at a higher status than the civilian, because the police is enforcing the laws on behalf of the state apparatus.

You, on the other hand, are a civilian. Your status vis-a-vis a police officer is lower. You are subject to his influence and power while he is not to yours.

What do people of higher status tend to do so others recognize their position? They distinguish themselves from the masses through various ways including consumption of certain types of goods. In the case of a police officer, he wears a uniform which immediately lets everyone knows that even though he is a human like everyone else, he is not in an equal position to everyone else at that moment in time.

Because of that, because of the differences in status, those who are below him give him respect, obey his orders, etc.

The few who challenge his authority will feel tremendous pressure to comply with what we can call the "status quo" between a police officer and a civilian.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can also use DR1 as an example. For example, why do people put attention to anything Robert or Dolores says here, particularly when its regarding what members are allowed to post? It's a similar class system at work. Robert and Dolores are the elites, the moderators are members of that elite who are chosen by the founders. Then there are the non-moderating members who are divided between influential members (those who have access to the "elite") and the uninfluential members (those who post, but regardless what they say, it will have no effect on how DR1 is run). Then there are the "low class" of DR1 which is composed of newbies, members who are not taken seriously, etc). Finally, there are the "excluded" who are the lurkers, they take absolutely no part on DR1 other than watching everything while not being engaged.

You will notice that if a moderator is dissatisfied with a member, such member will be given a notice and if he disobey the notice, he will eventually be banned or eliminated. However, if members are dissatisfied with a moderator, the removal of such is dependent on what the other moderators think of him. In both instances, the decision lies in the moderators (ie. the elites) while some DR1 members have some influence over some moderators while others have absolutely no influence. In either case, the moderators have the "power" and the rest of DR1 don't.

To become a member of the "moderators club", it depends on what Robert or other moderators think of such potential member. They hold the power to include and exclude whomever they want. In fact, Robert and Dolores hold the ultimate power and moderators come a close second, but under the watchful eyes of the founders. Everybody else is under the watchful eyes of the moderators.

Despite the obvious difference in status of various members on the DR1 community, this site is among the best and most efficient out there. There are more "egalitarian" sites out there with no moderators, in fact everybody is an equal and they function in a less civilized manner.

The same applies to societies at large, more or less.

-NALs

Then there are the "low class" of DR1 which is composed of newbies, members who are not taken seriously, etc).
------------------

So according to your hierarchy in this case, its the number of post's that matter and to the content of what is being said?? There have been many cases that what a newbie said would blow some old timers out of water. When you get down to it this is just a forum with some rules to keep the game going. To put this as an example of class differences is ridiculous.

[Chip00]

I wonder where I would fit in? As I'm a self employed engineer I spend a lot of time working on the computer and talking to important people and clients on the phone while I'm actually sitting in my drawers.

Some of my wife's family tell my wife to tell me to "dress up" instead of dressing like a normal day laborer.

However, apart from being called "toyoso" and "sin education" (by the wife for being of the "gaseous" type) people say I'm a nice person in general.

[Lambada]

Originally Posted by A.Hidalgo

To put this as an example of class differences is ridiculous.

And highlights the difference between 'power' & 'influence'. Advice which is influential tends to be advice coming from a respected person who posts articulate, well thought out information. This is completely regardless of 'power'. For example Chirimoya is an articulate person who posts good stuff & people listen to her. But she is not a moderator so she has no power. However, she has status based on merit. There could be those who have power but no status . i think it is an error to mistake power for status, either on a board or in real life. Mussolini had power but did he have status? Ditto Kim Jong Il.

[Chris]

The only 'power' moderators have is to clean up. That makes us janitors! As such, quite low down on the totem pole.