The DR1 Spanish Forum

[NALs]

Poll prepared and requested by Marianopolita.

The DR1 Spanish forum began in April 2005 and it was a suggestion by AnnaC to have a place where people who were studying Spanish, interested in language, wanted to improve, etc. could practice. The mod herself was taking a course at the time and figured it would be a good idea with the help of Spanish speakers on the board and those knowledgeable about grammar, language, vocabulary, etc. could assist by answering questions that posters have. However, the objective of the forum is NOT to teach anyone Spanish.

IMO, the forum is helpful for the most part but has a vast range of speakers for example, beginner to advanced level, professionals in the language, native/ bilingual speakers but they do not know anything about language, native/ bilingual speakers who have some knowledge etc.

After observing threads this year and specifically a few recent ones, I thought it would be good to have a poll about the forum and maybe people would provide suggestions, ideas, positive and negative feedback. Specifically, I would like to hear what people think about the responses provided in the forum by posters.

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The Poll:

What is your opinion about DR1's Spanish forum:

1/ Very helpful

-interesting threads, abundant information, accurate responses, good responses by regular posters in the forum.

- evident knowledge of the Dominican vernacular and Spanish spoken in the Spanish-speaking world.

- knowledgeable posters answer the questions at hand and provide good responses. Evidence of grammar and linguistic expertise. Suggestions and critique are valuable. Questions asked are answered and the answers provided have helped as you continue to learn Spanish (or you read the forum out of interest)

.
2/ Helpful

-For the most part answers are provided to all questions asked. Good details are provided with evidence of grammar and linguistic knowledge.

-The question(s) asked is (are) answered and the threads in general are helpful.

- Sufficient and sometimes abundant knowledge of the Dominican vernacular and Spanish spoken in the Spanish-speaking world is provided.


3/ Not very helpful

-Questions are not always answered and responses are not always accurate, helpful or doubtful.

-Some posters provide good responses but when those posters don't post the thread is not valuable.

- Threads don't evidence grammatical and/or linguistic knowledge by most posters.

- Better answers found in other forums.

- off topic posts and replies


4/ Don't know

- Don't have enough knowledge about Spanish and language in general to critique the forum and responses.

-I browse the forum occasionally but can't provide an opinion about its quality.

[Big_Poppi2]

I would say number 1, even though there are some off the topic post and some disagreement on some on the subject topics. There is often so much great information that it makes up for the off topic points I love the site and the post. thanks
Biggs

[Marianopolita]

Thanks Big_Poppi2 for being the first to comment on the poll. Did you vote though? It appears that you stated you chose option 1 but it would be helpful to actually vote in the poll.


General comment based on your observation:

Your comment is an interesting observation and to be frank there is only one poster currently that usually disagrees almost always even though he was the person who asked the question. Language responses are debatable to a certain extent however, many times especially where grammar is concerned it's either right are wrong. Also there are times when more than one response is correct but that should not be confused with a correct answer or correct answers vs. incorrect speech that is commonly heard thus seemingly correct. The average speaker native included does not know much about grammar, does not always speak correctly and in many cases is not even aware of their own and other people's incorrect speech. We all know this is certainly the case in the DR where poor to mediocre speech is so common. The upper hand any person can have is to have above average knowledge of grammar in a language to be able to recognize incorrect speech by all speakers and follow the model of good grammar as much as possible.

In the Spanish forum this comes to light often therefore I choose my battles accordingly. It's just a lot easier. Here are recent examples from the Spanish forum and one from the Travel forum:

Originally Posted by Chip

Thanks. I'm actually using less colloquialisms than I did before, although I admit I still will barely if at all pronunce the "s" in some words. It's just that I have found if I speak really correctly the people here get confused, y pronto se funde to' - ie se finge que no me entiendan.

-grammatically 'se finge que no me entiendan' is not correct.

First of all the verb fingir and fingirse don't have the same meaning and entiendan (in the subjunctive) is incorrect. It s/b 'entienden' (it s/b the indicative as fingir does not require the subjunctive in Spanish). I do believe most good speakers will know the semantic difference between se finge vs. finge.

As well, both verbs need to coincide in number. In this case if the poster insists on using the singular both need to be singular- '(se) finge + entiende'. As well, there is a special grammar rule about the usage of 'las gentes' small sources don't go into enough detail. The rule of thumb is: people are = la gente es.

Another poster with a good command of Spanish pointed out the error but the response really should have recognized what El_Uruguyao was trying to show :

Originally Posted by El_Uruguayo

... And probably one of the most important things to stress while you're reaching a more advanced level, is to have people correct your mistakes. Even if people have understood very clearly what you are talking about, if they notice a mistake, ask them to let you know. It's a good way of drilling the things that you need to correct into your head.


"ie se finge que no me entiendan."

Should be "se fingen que no me entienden"

As well in this post below there are quite a few grammar errors and the key ones are verb control- subject/ verb agreement sing/ plural but would the poster accept them or say xxxx which is what I normally see posted? In a language forum you have to pick your battles and sometimes it's easier to dialogue and/ or have a discussion with posters who have a good and/ or strong knowledge of grammar so no posts are wasted debating the obvious.

Originally Posted by Chip

¿Enseñame que los gringos tiene que ver con la situacion que el gobierno no paga suficiente a sus verdaderos servientes del estado? De verdad es un abuso y una verguenza el hecho que los politicos gana mas que valen aqui mientras lo demas le mandan para el carajo. Mi cuñada es enfermera y gana RD10k mensual, y trabaja como un caballo. ¿Cuanto ganara un politico por estar sentado en su casa haciendo negocio propio para llenar los bolsillos?

That's one of the downfalls in the forum currently. There are mixed levels thus people often end up debating and disagreeing over posts that are indeed correct etc.



~Marianopolita.

[Chip]

I enjoy the Spanish forum inspite of criticisms on my contributions, however incorrect. The point of this forum is to learn Spanish, and I have learned a great deal in spite of some who consistently make me wonder if it is even worth it.

I would like to add I wish they had a section dedicated just to Spanish with native speakers who are willing to constructively help those who wish to learn or become fluent in Spanish.

[Cantaloulou]

did not even know it existed!!!

[Marianopolita]

Anna,

Since you are one of the mods of the polls forum and an active mod of the Spanish forum it would be interesting to hear your thoughts. As well, since the poll has relevance meaning it has to do with a forum on DR1 hopefully at least 20-25 voters opinion will give posters a slight idea of what people think of it. It's good to get feedback both positive and negative and maybe implement some change via the vox populi.

BTW- I did vote and I chose an overall 'helpful' although a small percentage of posters posts go in the 'very helpful' category (IMO).



~Marianopolita.

[AnnaC]

What I've learnt is that there are many different ways to say the same thing depending on the Spanish speaking person's level of education and what country they are originally from.

Overall I think the Spanish 101 forum is helpful.

[samanasuenos]

Originally Posted by Big_Poppi2

I would say number 1, even though there are some off the topic post and some disagreement on some on the subject topics. There is often so much great information that it makes up for the off topic points I love the site and the post. thanks
Biggs

Occasionally, there is some IMO stuffy feedback on what is "correct" and so on, which I disegard, all usage is real to me.

That said, I enjoy reading the debates and arguements and even the above business which I criticized. I don't post often, but read it frequently. It gets me thinking, and I suppose I am not the only one.

Thank you for the poll. Be well, Sammy

[Marianopolita]

Originally Posted by AnnaC

What I've learnt is that there are many different ways to say the same thing depending on the Spanish speaking person's level of education and what country they are originally from.

Overall I think the Spanish 101 forum is helpful.

That is true to a certain extent but the language is still unified by ONE grammar. When one begins to study the language academically s/he is assigned or recommended a text book of Spanish grammar which applies to anyone anywhere who is learning the language. What everyone learns are the rules of grammar aka the foundation of the language and then after many years of study one may start to assess the regional and country specific differences. In short, there are no separate grammar rules per country although there are regional grammatical differences. If the language were so different speakers would not be able to read Spanish newspapers from all over the Spanish-speaking world, books etc. When I choose a Spanish book to read I don't have to know where the author is from to be able to read it. If regional vocabulary and expressions are included that's expected but they do not impede my comprehension.

Spanish speakers understand each other. Anyone who speaks Spanish will agree with me. If you are a Spanish speaker you can speak the language anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world and be understood. No matter what you may read in the forum. Yes, there are vocabulary differences that's a given and the other extreme is sentence pattern differences (specifically in the Caribbean), pronunciation differences because of el voseso in voseo-speaking countries etc, but none of this impedes anyone who speaks Spanish from understanding what is being communicated.

The problem that Big_Poppi2 commented about in the first post I believe is when there is clearly something that is incorrect and a few say it is correct for whatever reason rather than just accept that their grammar is faulty and maybe has always been. As flexible as Spanish is grammar is grammar with some regional grammatical exceptions and they are still considered a small percentage when assessing the language as a whole. For example, Spanish has a more flexible syntax (sentence structure rules) than English and even with the flexibility there are still some sentences that won't be accepted as standard/ correct grammar- 'the door is open' BUT not 'open the door is'. People will understand but it is not considered proper or standard grammar. The same holds true in Spanish with a lot more possibilities and regional variances such as dropping of the /s/ in the plural form of nouns (in the spoken language mostly in the Caribbean) although it should always be written and confusion because of the /s/ dropping with tú vs. usted verb forms. In the Caribbean and a few other Caribbean basin regions you will hear ¿qué tú dice? BUT please this is not the standard in other Spanish-speaking countries or speech of the educated anywhere. ¿Qué dices (tú)? is correct. These differences need to be recognized, acknowledged and understood as regionalisms. In my experience, Spanish speakers who are not as diverse in their knowledge in their own language nor educated will argue this and it's mostly the less educated who say they are correct and educated speakers know that 'yes' some people speak this way in certain countries/ regions but it's definitely not the standard.

Although grammar errors in the forum may be blatant, I am guessing (I could be wrong) other posters reading the posts in the forum don't challenge the poster(s) because they don't have the grammar knowledge to back themselves up with examples too so they let it go. However, IMO, that's fine as long as other people reading the forum know not to believe everything they read. If they are regular readers they will know which posters have good grammatical knowledge vs. those who don't. I can only hope. This is one of the reasons why I prepared and requested the poll which is to put some of these issues on the table and it's good to do it outside the actual forum in a discussion poll so people can get a feel for the issues present. In the forum itself, the thread tends to go south.



~Marianopolita.

[NALs]

Wow, almost 500 views in 3 days.

Impressive!

-NALs