El español de Santo Domingo.

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

I have the opposite problem, Pib. I learned to speak in Barahona - meaning I don't pronounce the "s" after a vowel. In the finer parts of La Capital, the classy people usually ask me to kindly stop talking like that.

A tangental point is "youth-speak". I saw the movie "Y Tu Mama Tambien" not too long ago. I couldn't understand much of the lingo - not because it was rural or lower class (it wasn't at all), but because it was youth-speak.

In that movie, I also heard plenty of profanity that really cannot be repeated in the DR without being very offensive. Yet it's sociable to say "chinga to mama cabron" among youths in Mexico. Similarly, you can't say "conyo!" in Mexico, though people exclaim it here when they stub their toes.

BTW, wouldn't you say that there is a "standard" Latin American Spanish and a "standard" Iberian Spanish, and that the "standard" is not the same - much like standard American English and BBC English are not the same?

[Pib]

Originally posted by Porfio_Rubirosa
I have the opposite problem, Pib. I learned to speak in Barahona - meaning I don't pronounce the "s" after a vowel. In the finer parts of La Capital, the classy people usually ask me to kindly stop talking like that.

A tangental point is "youth-speak". I saw the movie "Y Tu Mama Tambien" not too long ago. I couldn't understand much of the lingo - not because it was rural or lower class (it wasn't at all), but because it was youth-speak.

In that movie, I also heard plenty of profanity that really cannot be repeated in the DR without being very offensive. Yet it's sociable to say "chinga to mama cabron" among youths in Mexico. Similarly, you can't say "conyo!" in Mexico, though people exclaim it here when they stub their toes.

BTW, wouldn't you say that there is a "standard" Latin American Spanish and a "standard" Iberian Spanish, and that the "standard" is not the same - much like standard American English and BBC English are not the same?

You raise a few interesting points.

First, what you call "youth-speak" I usually refer to as "urban lingo". And yes, sometimes it sounds like an entirely different language to our old ears. It is usually spoken by urban, little-educated youth from the poorest neighborhoods. It usually goes out of date and leaves behind a few words in the mainstream language. I recall that jevi, sanki and other words were "urban slang" when I was a teenager.

Another interesting point is that you seem to believe that there are two Spanish. I differ. There is only one Spanish. The RAE is like the pope of Spanish. What it says goes. Latin American countries have such a variety of accents and vocabulary that I don't think we can speak of "a Latin American Spanish" I dare to say there's as much difference between the Dominican Spanish and the Argentinian Spanish as there is between the Dominican Spanish and that of "la madre patria".

Speaking the language doesn't make me an expert, but that's how I see it.

[MaineGirl]

We did the good vs. bad Spanish debate awhile back on a different thread.

I want to respond to the "urban lingo." I live in a very rural area, and it seems to me that our rural youth have developed their own slang. It wouldn't compare to a kid from the Bronx talking to his friends, but if you took that kid from the Bronx and stuck him here, he would need a dictionary as well. I like "youth speak" better. The youngsters tend to find words that fit situations quickly. When the word catches on, it is overused to death, but people understand what it means. New words arrive via MTV and clever young people in the community who understand the value of words. To the uninitiated it sounds bad. But for communication purposes, it's great.

In a recent survey of my classes, the kids overwhelmingly wanted me to teach them Spanish for communication, more so than the Pope's spanish, because they saw that as being infinitely more valuable to their generation.

The other valuable point is that there ARE differences between the Latin countries in how they speak Spanish. I am no expert, but have been exposed at length to at least three different ways of speaking (Venezuelan, Dominican and Argentine). I am careful to point out these differences to my students. 20+ countires speak Spanish! I use this analogy: take a person from Scotland and a person from West Virginia and put them in a room. Do they both speak English? can they understand each other? Perhaps in Spanish the examples do not reach that extreme. But you see the point.

My kids want to know "To a Spanish person, what do we sound like?" and usually I am honest: "An American trying to speak Spanish." But sometimes we do fun drills where I speak quickly and as if I was talking to my Venezuelan girlfiends on the phone. They parrot me excatly and you know what, they sound like any punk chama from Valencia! And that is what they beg me for--real Spanish. They want to sound authentic. On some of our other drills I speed it up and slur the words together for them. They get it--this is how people really talk.

Here in the US we have no queen's English--most everyone is marked by a regional accent. Only newscasters speak the bland English of mass communication. We have no RAE either, no language police. Our universities are filled with professors, some of whom speak terrible English (I'll never forget the Indian professor of mathematics who talked about "sex" for an hour--later he wrote it on the board and it was "sets"). It seems more up for grabs here. I love the internet because it eliminates accents and when written, you can really tell how people think in the language.

Great thread. I've rambled enough already.

BTW Pib you did a great job cleaning up my horrible translation.

[sancochojoe]

I see more beauty in the variety of the language. As you all have written, the manner in which you talk helps identify what region of DR the person is from, I see that as wonderful.

If the first thing people think about is the level of education when Communicating, than shame on the listener.

When you look at the negative side of how someone speaks, you are only marginalizing yourself from the person, and putting them in a category.

We all know, no matter what part of the world, youth for the most part are going to speak in the "Urban Tougue"

As far as newspapers, they do that in the united states. Most newspapers are written at a 6th or 7th grade level. Thats common practice around the world. You don't want to disconnect yourself from the masses of people.

[TCIDR]

I read the DR1 forum regularly. What I've noticed is that people are more interested in separating themselves into categories. Pointing fingers is the normal. No sincere appreciation. Lots of surface value!

Everyone is so interested in being in the "in-group" that alot of the more important aspects of life goes by unnoticed.

I see flexibility and diversity as a required discipline therefore being able to be comfortable in all and everygroup. Only when one is not comfortable within oneself is he/she is always trying to attract the attention of a particular group.
Now, we all know the group that are praised daily in the DR: Class, Popularity, wealth, skin color.

I graciously open up myself for all the criticism that is out there because rejection just makes me a better man.

.....TCIDR

[Moniki]

The dialects are ok to deal with as long as you understand spanish - however what completely cinfused me was when a taxi driver asked Minni and I if we like our hostel?!?!

I was like what??????

I didn't get it until Minni explained to me that they add and "s" in the middle of a word so that they sound more "fisno"

Where did the add an "s" in the middle of the word originate anyways?

[Jane J.]

It comes from what you just referred to: trying to sound "fisno".

Because the habit of dropping the "s" is generally scorned by the more literate, the less literate equate the usage of the "s" with culture. However, being less literate, they are unsure where the essess properly go and so fit them in where they think approspriate.

Whoops, I mean, appropriate.

[Chirimoya]

I don't know if there's a technical term for this in linguistics, but it happens in other languages too: it's when uneducated speakers overcompensate for mispronuniations by adding something where it should not go. 'Fino' becomes 'fisno' because the speaker is overcompensating for dropped s's, as in 'depue' for despues, 'bucar' for buscar, etc.

Of course, 'fisno' is used ironically now, by those who know exactly where their s's go!

In Andalucia (sorry to go on about this but it is one of my main points of reference) speakers overdo the Castillian 'th' sound in a misfired attempt to sound posh. In Castillian Spanish 'z' and 'c' are pronounced 'th' - e.g. cerveza is pronounced 'thervetha' - so the Andaluces, who speak like we do in the DR, where z, c and s are all pronounced as 's' will overcompensate by pronouncing all three as 'th'. So, they would say "Andalutheth" instead of Andaluthesh (real Castilians pronounce the s as 'sh' just to confuse matters and to fill their mouths with even more cotton wool)!

In England, some accents in the south, especially London, tend to drop the h, so attempts at speaking posh often tack on redundant h's to words beginning with vowels, this is often done hironically as an hexaggerated himitation of genteel hupward mobility.

Chiri

Hedited to hadd those last few haitches, hinspired by the hinimitable Jane J. who beat me to this with a post that was much shorter and to the point!

[sancochojoe]

I'm trying to understand the point of this discussion anyway.

Are you all praising the variety of dialects on the Island and how it compares to other spanish speaking countries and its comparison with English

or

discovering how many people believe how illiterate Dominicans are.

just curious

[Forbeca]

Originally posted by sancochojoe
I'm trying to understand the point of this discussion anyway.

Are you all praising the variety of dialects on the Island and how it compares to other spanish speaking countries and its comparison with English
or
discovering how many people believe how illiterate Dominicans are.
just curious

This thread is supposed to point out how all Spanish speaking countries have their own version of uncultured Spanish. This is a very common problem and not just DR related.