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Thread: El español de Santo Domingo.

  1. #71
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    Wink El español de Santo Domingo y el mundo.

    I have been reading a lot in the last days, about the spanish language and I foun thin in " El país Samanal,Madrid, España 28/01/01 " please can someone try to traslate, my English is not so good. Well, I do not want to post the whole article only a part of it.

    Dónde se habla mejor español?
    400 millones de personas hablan español en el mundo, pero no hablan igual en Bolivia que en Argentina, no hablan igual los hispanos de Estados Unidos que los habitantes de Guinea Ecuatorial, no se habla igual en Barcelona que en Sevilla. Pues, dónde se habla mejor español?

    "La pregunta no tiene sentido: el español de Caracas es tan bueno como el de Salamanca, todo depende del nivel cultural de los hablantes". Por suerte, en nuestra lengua hay una norma culta general, que hace que todos los hablantes de Jalisco, Bogotá o Zaragoza se puedan entender perfectamente. ....


    I think the is a very good answer to all the question that we have in this Forum...
    have a nice weekend
    adeu

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthamos-1973
    Dónde se habla mejor español?
    400 millones de personas hablan español en el mundo, pero no hablan igual en Bolivia que en Argentina, no hablan igual los hispanos de Estados Unidos que los habitantes de Guinea Ecuatorial, no se habla igual en Barcelona que en Sevilla. Pues, dónde se habla mejor español?

    "La pregunta no tiene sentido: el español de Caracas es tan bueno como el de Salamanca, todo depende del nivel cultural de los hablantes". Por suerte, en nuestra lengua hay una norma culta general, que hace que todos los hablantes de Jalisco, Bogotá o Zaragoza se puedan entender perfectamente. ....
    Where is the best Spanish spoken?
    400 million people worldwide speak Spanish, but it is not spoken the same way in Bolivia as it is spoken in Argentina; Hispanics from the US don't speak the same way as people from Ecuatorial Guinea; nor is it the same in Sevilla or Barcelona. Where is then, the best Spanish spoken.

    The question doesn't make any sense: the Spanish from Caracas is as good as the one from Salamanca; it all depends on the cultural level of the speaker. Luckily there is in our language an educated standard that makes possible that all speakers, from Jalisco, Bogotá or Zaragoza, understand each other perfectly.
    Q.E.D.
    Last edited by Pib; 09-24-2004 at 10:38 AM.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley D
    I just researched the word "fritar" in the on-line RAE dictionary and the word exists but as you can see the usage is regional:

    fritar.
    (De frito).
    1. tr. Bolivia., Colombia y Uruguay= freír.


    -Lesley D
    It is possible that the RAE is only acknowledging the existence of this word, not necessarily approving it. If you check freír you will see that fritar is not listed as any of its conjugations. However, I am surprised to find out that freído (one of the two accepted past participles) does exist, which speaks of my own ignorance of the language. I would have laughed at anyone using it in front of me.

    On a side note, I also have just found out that aguaitar, which I thought was a made-up word from the Cibao region is actually a real word, albeit a somewhat archaic one. I am ashamed to know so little about Spanish.

  4. #74
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    Default I would like to read the whole article

    Balthamos-1973,

    Por supuesto un español culto siempre se entiende.

    The Spanish language will always have diversity due to fact that it is the official language of 21 countries and the vestiges of indigenous lexicology lends itself to extreme diversity from country to country (those that had indigenous populations) but this diversity does not effect the rules of grammar. The way people speak and write directly relates to their educational background thus making Spanish comprehensible among all speakers of the Spanish language. The comprehension factor becomes complicated or challenging when dialects, regional terms and slang are used between two completely different linguistic communities.

    A key example of diversity as mentioned in the article is Spanish spoken in the USA. In very broad terms there is plenty of evidence of English in Spanish spoken in USA when referring to syntax structure, vocabulary and paralleling of English grammar patterns to Spanish. These concepts are very common among first generation speakers and worst yet in the second. Studies have shown that first generation speakers in the USA speak Spanish with grammatical difficulty and Spanish completely disappears by the third generation (source: Spanish in the United States: Sociolinguistic Issues by John Bergen). As well major grammatical rules are not respected and a prime example is the use of the subjunctive mood in Spanish. An example that I like to use is as follows:

    A first generation speaker will most likely say: Espero que puedas venir
    A second generation speaker may say: Espero que puedas or puedes venir. (the latter is incorrect)
    A third generation speaker will most likely say: Espero que puedes venir (grammatically incorrect. No use of the subjunctive).

    I agree with the comment in the article: "La pregunta no tiene sentido" because the level of education of the speaker is the key factor. To say that Spanish spoken in one country is better than the Spanish spoken in another is a broad generalization although trends may be consistent in the speech patterns and habits of a country's population. I think the diversity is interesting as long as the grammar rules are not effected because a norm has to be maintained to facilitate communication and to ensure the survival of the language.

    In many pockets of Spanish communities in the USA diversity in the Spanish language is evident. Take a drive down Calle Ocho in Miami, or go to Hialeah (a predominantly Cuban area in S. Florida) or Jackson Heights a Colombian neighborhood in Queens, NY and you will note the lexical differences. I personally think the diversity is interesting as long as the rules of grammar are not jeopardized.

    -Lesley D




    Quote Originally Posted by Balthamos-1973
    I have been reading a lot in the last days, about the spanish language and I foun thin in " El país Samanal,Madrid, España 28/01/01 " please can someone try to traslate, my English is not so good. Well, I do not want to post the whole article only a part of it.

    Dónde se habla mejor español?
    400 millones de personas hablan español en el mundo, pero no hablan igual en Bolivia que en Argentina, no hablan igual los hispanos de Estados Unidos que los habitantes de Guinea Ecuatorial, no se habla igual en Barcelona que en Sevilla. Pues, dónde se habla mejor español?

    "La pregunta no tiene sentido: el español de Caracas es tan bueno como el de Salamanca, todo depende del nivel cultural de los hablantes". Por suerte, en nuestra lengua hay una norma culta general, que hace que todos los hablantes de Jalisco, Bogotá o Zaragoza se puedan entender perfectamente. ....


    I think the is a very good answer to all the question that we have in this Forum...
    have a nice weekend
    adeu
    Last edited by Marianopolita; 09-24-2004 at 03:05 PM.

  5. #75
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    Pib,

    It is not listed as any of freír's side conjugations because it's truly a stand alone verb and it follows all the normal rules of conjugation of an AR ending verb in Spanish. As the dictionary indicates the verb originated from the past participle "frito" thus becoming FRITAR. As well, you must keep in mind in Spanish most new verbs that come into language (and there is a surge right now because the use of information technology) are "AR" verbs and if it's in the RAE as a legimate verb it will follow the verb forms that correpsond to its category. Since you asked I researched "fritar" in the on-line RAE and the conjugation in all tenses is provided.

    I did know that "freído" existed but I prefer to use "frito" but then again it depends what you are use to. There are quite a few verbs in Spanish that have two past participles.

    As well "aguaitar" realmente no sé si se usa más en el Cibao o no sin embargo significa "mirar" o "acechar". ¿Eso es el significado verdad?

    -Lesley D




    Quote Originally Posted by Pib
    It is possible that the RAE is only acknowledging the existence of this word, not necessarily approving it. If you check freír you will see that fritar is not listed as any of its conjugations. However, I am surprised to find out that freído (one of the two accepted past participles) does exist, which speaks of my own ignorance of the language. I would have laughed at anyone using it in front of me.

    On a side note, I also have just found out that aguaitar, which I thought was a made-up word from the Cibao region is actually a real word, albeit a somewhat archaic one. I am ashamed to know so little about Spanish.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley D
    Pib,

    It is not listed as any of freír's side conjugations because it's truly a stand alone verb and it follows all the normal rules of conjugation of an AR ending verb in Spanish.
    D'oh! What was I thinking? You are right.
    As well "aguaitar" realmente no sé si se usa más en el Cibao o no sin embargo significa "mirar" o "acechar". ¿Eso es el significado verdad?
    Acechar is very common countrywide, but aguaitar always sounded cibaeño to me. In the only context I always hear it used is as an interjection, meaning, roughly, ut huh! or yeah, right!, but yes, it is the same as mirar and acechar.

    -Lesley D

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesley D
    Pib,
    There are quite a few verbs in Spanish that have two past participles.
    Which is all fine and dandy, and very interesting if you are into linguistics, but for the local (of each Spanish-speaking region) semi-educated speaker, such as myself, one is enough. Furthermore, what is acceptable in one country may not be in another. Which doesn't make any of the two any more wrong or right.

    As is the case with fritar -- which apparently is a perfectly cromulent verb in Spanish -- freído is not part of the educated standard in the Dominican Rep. And there is a Dominican Standard (which doesn't contradict the RAE), that is why you will not hear an educated Dominican saying freído.

    YMMV and all that and I will bow to your superior knowledge on this.

  8. #78
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    Aguaita is on the list of archaic Iberian Spanish words that survive into modern-day Dominican Spanish displayed in the Centro Leon in Santiago.

    On the question of freir and fritar - I have never ever seen or heard fritar but I have noted the use of both fritura and freidura (also freiduria) to denote a purveyor of fried foods on both sides of the pond.

  9. #79
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    Default One of my favorites is

    "Yo lo vide" , apparently aan archaism.

    Aguaita! Yo lo vide! Y e' veida'!!

    HB

  10. #80
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    Talking El Español de Santo Domingo es...

    El español de Santo Domingo is the same as the Spanish of DR and its provinces, and so English and German. Every language has it regionalism, accent and foreing words, what else___se fue la luz cojoyo!___

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