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  #1  
Old 02-04-2006, 01:03 PM
La flor y nata
 
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Lesley D Level 2 (83)
Default Gender usage and exceptions in Spanish

As you know Spanish is one those languages whose nouns are either masculine or feminine in gender. However, there are some nouns that take both genders el/la (singular) and los/las (plural) and also there are some nouns whose gender varies according to regional usage, archaic usage and literary forms. It is interesting when speaking daily one does not even think about this aspect until someone asks about the difference or you hear a word used incorrectly with the wrong gender (although understood). I usually start these threads when I hear an aspect of grammar used incorrectly or when someone asks me: 'por qué en español se dice xxx'.

I. Examples of nouns that have two genders with a change in meaning:

el cura vs la cura (priest/ cure)
el capital vs la capital (money/ capital- of a city)
el orden vs la orden (order- position in a series/ command)
el cólera vs la cólera (the disease/ anger)
el policía vs la policía (policeman/ the police force)

(there are many more examples)

-Please do not confuse these nouns with nouns that end in [a] (most of Greek origin that have been adopted into Spanish) and are masculine gender nouns. For example el mapa, el programa, el clima, el sistema, el poema, el drama, el lema, el crucigrama etc. These ones don’t have an equivalent feminine form.

II. Examples of nouns that have two genders and no change in meaning (but some exceptional usage):

1) - el mar/ la mar- this is an example of a noun that can take both genders but without a change in meaning. The usage is also regional. For example I know in Chile (si no me equivoco) la mar is used and considered the norm however, not for me. I cannot get used to la mar in everyday speech.

As well, one may come across la mar in literature (poetic style). There is a renowned novel by Sergio Ramírez called Margarita qué linda está la mar. I find it easy to remember the title because la mar sounds odd to me.

b) in nautical references mar is always feminine. For example la bajamar= the low tide

2) -el calor/la calor, el color/la color. The same logic as above applies. The usage of one form over another is purely regional (not poetic at all). I cannot imagine myself saying la calor.

3)- el azúcar (considered masc and fem)

Here is one exception you will hear or see:

el azúcar (masc. in the singular form) but if there is an adjective that follows it may be feminine.

4) el arte (is similar to # 3 above)

One will see el arte (singular) BUT las bellas artes (fem. in the plural form)

-in grammar references this concept is called a doubtful or 'ambiguous' gender.

-BTW if you look in the dictionary beside these words you will see masc or fem. IMO that should raise some curiosity as to why both genders are used. However, in general one gender is usually more commonly used than the other (except for regional differences).

5)-The names of seas, mountains, rivers etc. retain their respective gender. For example El Mar Caribe, El Mar Rojo etc.

I just scratched the surface on this very extensive topic. I gave examples of two exceptions of nouns and gender usage. Unfortunately, grammar books don’t go into the fine details and only cover the basics with a few common rules to follow. However, specialized grammar books do and the information provided is essential for better writing in Spanish. If you are an avid reader of all types of Spanish literature these specialized texts help clarify the peculiarities. What I posted are only two areas of focus but as I mentioned I normally post if I observe a repetitive error in the day to day or if someone asks me a grammar related question.


Salut,

LDG

Last edited by Lesley D; 02-04-2006 at 10:40 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2006, 03:11 PM
The Way Life Should Be...
 
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MaineGirl Level 1 (26)
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I really enjoyed this, Lesley. You are right--grammar books do not often cover this often puzziling aspect of Spanish.

Something to talk with my students about!
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2006, 05:39 PM
La flor y nata
 
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Lesley D Level 2 (83)
Default Mainegirl-

I am glad you found my post enjoyable and illustrative. Believe me I found it challenging to keep it short. As I said this topic, gender and noun usage is extensive in Spanish but severely slighted in most grammar books and the irony is the more advanced the grammar book is, the lesser the chance of the topic being covered thoroughly.

Out of the romance languages Spanish grammar is the second most complex only superceded by French in my opinion and the finer aspects of the language are a privilege and a joy to review, analyze and understand. The beauty of this is once one is aware of these aspects it changes one's perspective, well at least mine anyway. Especially when dealing with regional Spanish usage. Out from reading newspapers, books and literature from any Spanish speaking country as well as interacting with 'todos los hispanohablantes' I find these grammatical aspects true to the bone and proof positive of the grammar concepts and exceptions in the spoken and written language.

May I make one suggestion. If you are going to discuss this topic with your students be mindful of their grammatical strengths. If your students are not advanced in grammar with a strong command of concepts this could be counterproductive. Part I of my post with more examples I think would be really beneficial. Good luck.


LDG.

Last edited by Lesley D; 02-04-2006 at 06:33 PM.
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  #4  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:19 AM
La flor y nata
 
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Lesley D Level 2 (83)
Default Mainegirl-

Aquí tienes más ejemplos para tus estudiantes:

el cometa/ la cometa (comet/ kite)
el corte/ la corte (cut/ court)
el margen/ la margen (margin- of a page, 'profit margin' (in finance terms) / river bank or the side of the road)
el pendiente/ la pendiente (earring/ slope)
el frente/ la frente (front- of a building or structure/ forehead)
el Papa/ la papa ( the pope/ potato)


PD. "pendiente"= this is regional. The word for earring varies from country to country

If I think of some more I will let you know.

Feliz día

LDG.
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:22 AM
The Way Life Should Be...
 
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MaineGirl Level 1 (26)
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We almost always discuss Pope/potato!

Gracias, Lesley.
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  #6  
Old 02-06-2006, 11:25 AM
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Chirimoya Level 4 Chirimoya Level 4 Chirimoya Level 4 (276)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesley D
el Papa/ la papa ( the pope/ potato)
Latin American joke:
The pope is visiting [insert name of Latin American country here] and dies unexpectedly in his sleep. The next morning the government has the grim task of announcing the sad news to the world. Not used to being in the international spotlight, there is some debate about who should make the public statement. [Insert name of President known for dimwittedness here] insists on taking this on. The Presidential aides are nervous, but the President decides to make the statment in English, and consults his dictionary to ensure maximum accuracy.

The press conference goes ahead, and when the President speaks:

'Ladies and gentlemen, we have some very sad news. The potato is dead!'
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  #7  
Old 02-06-2006, 12:32 PM
La flor y nata
 
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Lesley D Level 2 (83)
Default Chirimoya-

Yes, a slip indeed! But at least he did not say 'el papá'. Those who are learning Spanish tend to accentuate the wrong syllable. All in the joy of learning- ¿verdad?


LDG.

Last edited by Lesley D; 02-06-2006 at 11:06 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #8  
Old 02-06-2006, 03:54 PM
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macocael Level 1 (46)
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Lesley D, I have a question that does not quite hark back to your examples of double gendered words, but also presents a problem for new speakers of Spanish when choosing the proper article. As everyone knows, the word for water in Spanish is "agua" and this noun is feminine, but of course we say "el agua" because using the feminine form of the definite article, "la," would create a problem with the conjunction of two similar vowels, a no-no in languages that take the "music" of the words seriously. The rule states:

"if the article comes directly before a feminine single noun which starts with a stressed "a" or "ha", then the masculine form "el" must be used. So while we say "el agua," the article changes when we say "la misma agua." Fine.

but here is my question: what is the correct form if we use a diminuitive? The reason I ask is that there is a very famous place near Maguana Arriba where the Liboristas hold their rituals, and the locals call it "La Aguita" (or rather, "L'Aguita," thus eliding one of the "a"s). They do not call it El Aguita. I assume that we revert to "la" because the first syllable of the noun is no longer stressed. Does this jive with your understanding of the situation?
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  #9  
Old 02-06-2006, 04:07 PM
La flor y nata
 
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Lesley D Level 2 (83)
Arrow Macocael...

"la agüita" me suena bien en español.

Yes, I would say based on grammar rules: 1) "agua" is feminine 2) the stress (accentuation) moves from the accented [a] to the diphthong [üi] because of the diminutive.

BTW- in Spanish L' as a contraction does not exist. I hope you have not seen that in the DR or elsewhere. The only two contractions in Spanish are del (de + el) and al (a + el).


LDG.

Me voy....

Last edited by Lesley D; 02-06-2006 at 11:05 PM. Reason: the thread was split
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  #10  
Old 02-07-2006, 06:22 AM
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monsoon68 Level 1 (10)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesley D
"la agüita" me suena bien en español.

Yes, I would say based on grammar rules: 1) "agua" is feminine 2) the stress (accentuation) moves from the accented [a] to the diphthong [üi] because of the diminutive.

BTW- in Spanish L' as a contraction does not exist. I hope you have not seen that in the DR or elsewhere. The only two contractions in Spanish are del (de + el) and al (a + el).


LDG.

Me voy....

In Spain we say "voy a echarle un poco de aguita a las plantas" (masc.)
and we use "el aguita" for cooking instructions: "colar el aguita".

It does not sound good for me "la aguita".

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