América Latina

[NALs]

Originally Posted by juancarlos

"According to some circles, there is a minor dispute of whether Son is Cuban or Dominican (ahem), regardless its a classic favorite through out the region."

yeah, but that "minor dispute" exists only in the DR. And even there, not everyone supports the theory that the son is Dominican. The danzón is also Cuban, although influenced by the French who came to Cuba from Haiti, I've read. It is supposed to be Cuba's National Dance, but it is hardly played there anymore, yet, in Mexico it is danced everyday in several cities. The bolero was born in Cuba too- I've seen some reports in DR claiming it is Dominican too- but there are as many made in Mexico boleros as there are in Cuba and many countries and peoples consider it their own too. The same thing applies to the son, as you stated, it is a classic favorite throughout the region. That is true.

That's why it's a minor, as oppose to a full fledge dispute.

I don't think we can call this "dispute" a theory, in order for something to be a theory it must satisfy all the steps of the Scientific Method, something that has probably not been done.

Disputes are a dime a dozen. There are minor dispute about Merengue between Dominicans and certain circles of Boricuas (who claim it was created there, I've also heard some people claim it was created in Venezuela and others point to Haiti). The funny thing is that nobody ever disputes the origin of Perico Ripiao and it's funny how modern Merengue derived from that rural genre of the Cibao countryside.

Again, disputes are simply that.

-NALs

[Chirimoya]

Originally Posted by Lesley D

Chiri, I did not edit Puerto Rico. It was on my original list. What I edited to add was another dish 'pupusa'. Can someone name the origin?

-LDG.

Lesley, could be something to do with the hefty brandy I poured down my throat earlier, but I did not see PR while I was composing my reply. Sorry!

Pupusas are from El Salvador - they're like the usual Central American tortillas but with savoury fillings.

[Lesley D]

Wonderful Chiri! It’s exactly what I expected from you and almost a relief too. I say this because most people I know and meet (acquaintances) both Latin and non-Latin know very little about Latin America. Most know only about one or two countries, which includes their country of origin. I just find that people are still so limited especially nowadays with the learning and travel opportunities many people have at their disposal.

The only correction I need to make at this point is about la lengua palenquera. As far as I know and I have never heard otherwise, la lengua palenquera is a Colombian criolla language spoken by the Palenqueros in Palenque, Colombia, a city about an hour and a half outside of Cartagena. Palenque is one of many authentic Black communities of Colombia, which originated during slavery and has been marginalized for decades.

It is the only Spanish based African language that is still spoken today and is not a Creole. Notice how it’s referred to as la lengua palenquera and not el palenque or anything else. There is even a dictionary available published in 1999. In November there was a thread about San Basilio de Palenque. UNESCO awarded the city and Colombia with a patrimony award for preserving its heritage in the true sense of the word i.e. language, food, dance etc. What I find ironic about this though is the preservation comes at a cost, total isolation and marginalization of a community. There are other marginalized groups of African heritage in Colombia for example in Chocó but are predominantly Spanish speaking.

BTW- I am a very simple person when it comes to food. Arroz con frijoles negros is one my favorites dishes, along with a cold beer. In Miami there are a few restaurants that prepare it well. I always look forward to my 'plato favorito' when I go there.

I attached the old thread and a new link, which I thoroughly enjoy.

DR1 Thread

La lengua palenquera

_________________________

Here are a few more (for anyone to try):


Ritmos/ Bailes (Dances/Rhythms)

la rumba


Platos (Dishes)

mole


Ciudades de Latinoamérica (Latin American Cities)

Popayán
Maracay
David
Veracruz
Chinandega
Limón
Ponce
Sucre
Liberia

*please refer to the list of countries in my first post

-LDG.

[Chirimoya]

I'll stick to the cities - because I've been to most of them (all but three):

Popayán - Colombia
Maracay - Venezuela
David - Panama
Veracruz - Mexico
Chinandega - Nicaragua
Limón - Costa Rica
Ponce - Puerto Rico
Sucre - Bolivia
Liberia - Costa Rica

Thanks for setting the record straight about Palenque. I associated Palenque with Mexico and didn't think about the others.

[Lesley D]

Chiri, don't keep me in suspense what are the three cities that you have not visited? My guess is: Popayán, Sucre and Ponce. Am I right?


I would find it rare that you did go to Popayán because it's a city about two hours from Cali. If you are there fine but I would not imagine someone just leaving any city to go there to visit although from what I hear it's really a nice small Colombian city en el Valle.


-LDG.

[Chirimoya]

Lesley, I'm speechless. Lucky my fingers are still working though. You got all three.

I've been to Colombia but not to Popayan. I've only had the pleasure of visiting Baranquilla, Cartagena and Bogota.

I've never been to Bolivia or to PR (apart from in transit, but that doesn't count).

[macocael]

These are my favorite threads. I dont have much to offer really. But as to la lengua palenquera I believe you can hear some of this -- along with rhythmic influences -- in some of the songs of Totó la Momposina (important in a Dominican context to get the accent right on that one!). As for the word "palenque" it is also used to describe rebel slave settlements around the caribbean.

La Rumba: Cuba

Mole: Chocolate and pepper based sauce found in Mexico

[MaineGirl]

I am running about 50% on these! Not bad for a maine girl.

[Lesley D]

Macocael- absolutely, la lengua palenquera is huge part of Colombian music especially salsa. One my favorite salseros, Joe Arroyo, is a prime example of his usage of la lengua palenquera en sus canciones. Just look at the title of many of his songs, the words that don't look Spanish are not.

BTW- he is Barranquillero but moved Cartagena and has been Cartagenero throughout his career.

You identified the countries correctly.

Mainegirl- 50% is better than nothing. I am sure you know a little more now than before.


-LDG.

[Lesley D]

I did some more research on la lengua palenquera because I was not comfortable with the definition provided in the link. Therefore just to clarify la lengua palenquera is considered a creole. It is a Spanish based creole because it is the native language of a speech community (as per the linguistic definition of creole) in this case San Basilio de Palenque and parts of Barranquilla. However, it is not the native language of Colombia (the whole country) and that's why in some sources it may not be defined as a creole.

Definition of "creole"- a language that has evolved from a pidgin but serves as the native language of a speech community.


-LDG.

Originally Posted by Lesley D

It is the only Spanish based African language that is still spoken today and is not a Creole. Notice how it’s referred to as la lengua palenquera and not el palenque or anything else.