Fluent or Proficient?

[Chip00]

I've heard quite a few people in my time describe themselves as "fluent" in the States and in my opinion only 10% of the people who claim to be fluent actually are. My opinion of being "fluent" is someone for example who could work at a company answering the phone in a foreign language or dealing with the public and co-workers on a daily basis. It doesn't have to do with speaking without an accent necessarily because there are quite a large number of people I have known in the States who speak English fluently albiet with an accent. A good example of like this IMO would be Arnold Swarzenegger.

On the other hand, "proficient" is a more accurate term to describe the majority of people who speak foreign languages. IMO based on interactions with people speaking English as a second language for 25+ years I would have to say that 85% fall into this category.

Basically, that would leave relatively few who could be considered "fluent" by my definition but I think that is reasonable becasue honestly there are very few who are able to speak a foreign language well enough to be able to interact like a native.

Also, based on my definition I would have to classify myself as proficient and would be interested in what the other DR1'ers think.

[KateP]

Personally I would say that once you don't have to think about answers or start automatically counting in a language other than your mother tongue, you can consider yourself fluent. I often find myself having to think twice before answering a question in English because my auto pilot is now in Spanish. And forget about my French which is actually my first language. It's just sad sad sad. Often when I'm counting something, I'll start in Spanish, continue in English and end up with a mess in French which makes me have to start all over again and concentrate to not switch around

As for being proficient, I would say it's some who can understand and express themselves well in another language although they might have an accent and not understand all the different expressions typical to a specific region.

[Capt. Rob57]

What one must understand is that all latin countries speak Spanish there are may different words used for example lechosa is paypa so it all depends where you are used to living and speaking. I remember when I was 18 went to Mexico and asked for eggs and bacon and almost got killed using huevos in the country side back then it was called the blanco de la gallina. Which to me would be feathers. Huevos would be testicles. Now remember this was over 30 years ago. Times change.

[Alyonka]

My english teacher said that the language in your mind when you are thinking about something is your native. So, to me, it is when you start thinking in a different language and are able to pronaunce words and sentences correctly and clearly for everyone to understand - then you are proficient.

[Norma Rosa]

It is erroneous to separate both terms (fluent/proficient) to designate a level of proficiency acquired by a lenguage learner. Fluency is proficiency in a language. The usual classification of lenguage learners is as follows: Beginners, intermediate, advanced, and fluent. (There are subdivisions withing those categories.)

The following quote is from About.
Fluent:
"A fluent speaker can participate in extended conversations, understand the language when spoken normally (on TV, radio, film, etc.), figure out meaning of words within context, debate, and use/understand complicated grammatical structures with little or no difficulty. Has good accent and understands dialects with slight-to-moderate difficulty."

Here to help (and learn)
Norma

[Kyle]

so what about us who can speak a little span-glish (spanish/english) ? would we be considered "having a basic knowledge" ??

[Chirimoya]

There's also a 'good working knowledge' - I can barely order a meal in a restaurant in French, mainly due to lack of practice, but I can understand a reasonably complex text and follow other people's conversations well enough.

[bob saunders]

Perhaps the term to use would be Functional. This is the term we use in Canada under our Official bilingual legalize for hiring people for bilingual positions. Either you are Fluent, functional, or have a " working knowledge"

[2LeftFeet]

You know that you are really good in that language when you dream in that language instead of your 1st language.

[Kyle]

i keeps my spanish translation book with me at all times in case i get into a jam...i'm sure not to many people do that...it comes in handy, believe me...