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  #1  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:37 PM
La flor y nata
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Lesley D Level 1 (27)
Default Suggested Topics

Here are some suggested topics for the Spanish forum in 2008:


1/ En el restaurante-

-with a Spanish menu or a menu of a typical Dominican restaurant provide helpful vocabulary when ordering food in Spanish and helpful typical phrases.

IMO, one's language skills are always tested in these types of scenarios as well as asking for something you need in a hotel. Being courteous when asking for something is important and certain verb forms (el condicional -podría …) convey this courtesy as well as forms of address tú vs usted.

Here is a link of Dominican dishes
www.dominicanflave.com/dominicanfoodculture

2/ Spanish grammar blunders-

-In all languages all speakers err. There is no question about it. However, there are some errors that are not as blatant as others and have become part of accepted colloquial speech. Some definitely put the speaker(s) in a certain category when it comes to language. Spanish is a difficult language to master grammatically and even those with a superior command still have to resort to references when necessary. However, some errors made in the Spanish language always leave me puzzled and more so if the speaker is not even aware of them. Education is usually the prime reason but not always. Some grammar errors are embedded in a region or speech community and these types are the hardest to change or correct. I make observations regularly and surely many you have questioned some phrases or words heard in the DR and Spanish-speaking countries and cities. When in doubt refer to a good grammar book and the dictionary. These are two extremely reliable sources regardless what you hear people say.

Here are some of my favorite classic examples of incorrect grammar in Spanish:

i/ putting accents where they do not belong. It shows lack of understanding of Spanish accentuation. On DR1 I often see examples such as canción (singular) and the plural form as canciónes instead of canciones. The plural form does not require the accent because the "es" creates a new syllable and the rules of accentuation apply.

ii/ incorrect verb forms. I saw in post recently usted eres. As well, dijistes, comistes, venistes etc. The tú form of the preterit tense has no 's'. This is a major sociolinguistic flaw among many speakers. Education is the key. Some speakers err with this verb form and others don't. There's no pattern.

iii/ the classic no "h" when it's required or written when it's not required. Some people still do not know that 'ay' and 'hay' are two different words.

iv/ the diminutive- cito. On DR1 and informal Spanish on the internet I often see -sito. Mi amorsito does not exist it s/b mi amorcito.

-there are many more examples.

BTW- 'casimente' which is being questioned in other thread at the moment is a classic example of erroneous vernacular speech specific to the DR. I have never heard it anywhere else. Needless to say education is key. The grammar rule is that casi is an adverb that does not take 'mente'. It's already an adverb therefore not formed from an adjective like fácil + mente= fácilmente.

3/ Word abbreviations-

Like in all languages words are shortened in colloquial speech and often categorized as slang.

How many do you know or have heard in everyday speech?

Here are some examples that I know- el/ la profe (el /la profesor/a ), por fa (por favor), la depre (la depresión), la bici (la bicicleta), las mate (las matemáticas)


4/ Spanish recipes-

Reading and understanding a Spanish recipe enriches ones command of the language especially if verbs forms are a weakness. As well, it certainly helps enrich one's knowledge of food vocabulary. Recipes have command forms which pose difficulty for some to learn in Spanish. People who are learning go back and forth with tú and usted commands with the same person especially in a letter or in sentences. Llama or llame, ven or venga. Consistency is a must.



That's it for now. These are just some ideas for thread discussion topics for those who are still interested in using this forum for its intended purpose.



-LDG.
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  #2  
Old 02-27-2008, 10:23 AM
*** Sin Bin ***
 
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El sabelotó Level 1 (10)
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Good stuff.

Have you noticed our use of pleonasm and non-words that sound semi-OK?

Sal pa' fuera; entra pa' dentro; casimente; igualito/a

I've argued that 'ven acá' is a pleonasm. What do you think, Lesley?
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  #3  
Old 02-27-2008, 07:54 PM
La flor y nata
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Lesley D Level 1 (27)
Default See the thread discussion below-

El sabelotó,

We had a discussion in 2006 that I started in which I addressed the same types of examples you did that reflect redundancy in the spoken language. Many Spanish speakers make those errors without realizing that what they say is redundant or in some cases is a bad usage of language. In your list since you added igualito (which is an adjective and an adverb) then ahorita should be there too because as adverbs it's questionable from a "good" usage of language perspective. Some grammarians question adding -ito, the diminutive to an adverb. This is more common in Latin America.


These aspects of language fall under the discipline known as sociolinguistics. It's the branch of linguistics that studies the relationship between language and society. I have stated this many times before over the years therefore, I won’t go into the details again. However, regarding ven acá being an example of pleonasm, it's debatable and very common. Some will also say ven aquí is more precise than ven acá. However, I think there are other examples of questionable usage of language in Spanish that are worse than ven acá.

http://www.dr1.com/forums/spanish-10...galo-bien.html


BTW- casimente sounds ridiculous.


-LDG.
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  #4  
Old 02-27-2008, 09:02 PM
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Chirimoya Level 2 Chirimoya Level 2 (120)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesley D View Post

How many do you know or have heard in everyday speech?

Here are some examples that I know- el/ la profe (el /la profesor/a ), por fa (por favor), la depre (la depresión), la bici (la bicicleta), las mate (las matemáticas)
All of the above, and one more that I've heard is el cole (el colegio).

I recently suggested one on death-related vocabulary - terms like

dar el pésame - to give condolences
morir - to die
fallecer - to pass away
el ataúd, la caja de muertos = coffin, casket
la funeraria - funeral home
el velorio - wake
el cementerio - cemetery
el entierro - burial
enterrar - to bury
la misa - mass
el luto - mourning

Any more? Some suggestions for the sort of things one should say when giving condolences, perhaps?
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2008, 07:56 AM
*** Sin Bin ***
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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El sabelotó Level 1 (10)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesley D View Post
since you added igualito (which is an adjective and an adverb) then ahorita should be there too because as adverbs it's questionable from a "good" usage of language perspective.
[BTW- casimente sounds ridiculous.


-LDG.
Yeah, I left out ahorita 'cause we talked about it before, and also because I use it "the right way" and not like Central Americans, whose use of it is opposite of "the right way." Of course, just kidding.

Tried to explain the ridiculousness (or ridiculity, as my favorite mangler-in-chief would say) of 'casimente' to an Americanized Dominican in Ohio: see, it's like saying almostly, but I gave up after he said, "Well, who knows if it's wrong."
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2008, 08:10 AM
*** Sin Bin ***
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 187
El sabelotó Level 1 (10)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirimoya View Post
All of the above, and one more that I've heard is el cole (el colegio).

I recently suggested one on death-related vocabulary - terms like

dar el pésame - to give condolences
morir - to die
fallecer - to pass away
el ataúd, la caja de muertos = coffin, casket
la funeraria - funeral home
el velorio - wake
el cementerio - cemetery
el entierro - burial
enterrar - to bury
la misa - mass
el luto - mourning

Any more? Some suggestions for the sort of things one should say when giving condolences, perhaps?
How 'bout 'te acompaño en tus sentimientos'?
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  #7  
Old 02-28-2008, 10:30 AM
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AnnaC Level 2 AnnaC Level 2 (140)
Wink

We can also find Dominican dishes, recipes as well as a message board in Spanish here Recetas Dominicanas - Cocina Dominicana
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