Cat Question Re: Ciguetera Poison deleted from bo

What happened to the board this afternoon? I had posted a reply to Canadian Bob in the Cat thread regarding a statement that he said that cats react to ciguetera/fish poison very rapidly and I wanted to know what was the reaction. My cat eats all the scraps when I clean fish for our restaurant and I am MOST interested in a response to this as I darn sure don't want to poison any of my patrons as the Dominican restaurant on the beach here has done in the past. Then my message is deleted. What's up, webmaster?

Dear Andy. Ciguatera poisoning is caused by small reef fish eating a dinoflagelate carrying tetradoxidin. The small fish are eaten by bigger ones on the reefs. Some 500 different varieties are affected. Cooking does not destroy the poison. The antidote is Manitol, which is a simple sugar solution given as as injection. This reduces the brain swelling which is the reason for the strange symptoms (including reversal of hot/cold sensations) I became aware of ciguatera several years ago in Costambar when 23 people including the restaurant owner became very ill. Sometimes tourists get it & return home, & their doctor does not realize what the problem is. Tetradoxidin is one of the most poisonous chemicals known. Deep sea fish are not affected & are safe to eat. Reef fish are often poisonous. We do not eat fish at all when in the DR as the results can be devastating. If you want more information please feel free to E.Mail me. Canadian Bob.

Canadian Bob,

Thanks for the reply. The effects of fish poisoning in humans are well documented. I'm a Florida boy who has fished all his life and am very familar with fish poisoning symptoms in humans, its effects on the nervous system, etc. ITS the CAT I wanted to know about as she eats scraps of the fish I clean for consumption in the restaurant. The implications are if the cat suffers a rapid reaction to a contaminated fish as you said they do in your original posting, then I KNOW to throw it away and not serve it. The cat becomes the "King's Taster," and could very well save the day.

You're very correct in that you say many reef dwellers carry the poison, but those BIG grouper and snappers that have moved into deeper water already have the poison in them, and a good rule of thumb is the larger the fish, the greater the level (and hence toxcicity) of the poison. We know it takes a certain level to trigger a reaction in humans.

As far as non-reef dwellers (i,e, coral eaters) to this day I won't eat a barracuda because they feed on the reef dwellers and gradually accumulate the poison. The bigger the barracuda, the better the chance of being poisoned. Among other other fish that fall in this category are amberjacks that hang around reefs (they also have worms in the flesh). Interestingly, yellow tail snapper and grunts, both reef dwellers do not carry the poison.

Also, some areas are known to be "Hot": the island of Saba for example. And some parts of some islands, certain reefs or certain bays will be "hot" while the rest of the area is perfectly safe.

By not eating fish at all when you come to the DR is denying yourself unnecessarily. As I said in my other posting, dorado (dolphin fish, Mahi-Mahi in the Pacific) have never been known to harbor the toxin. Neither have Tuna, Wahoo, King Mackeral, Spanish Mackeral, Marlin or Sailfish; all these are surface feeders.

Be sure of what species you are eating, not only know your fish but know your restauranteur. We won't serve fish that could be suspect,...THAT'S why I wanted to know about the cat.

Thanks Andy! Your information is well taken, I appreciate your advice. I have seen local reef fishermen taking Puffer fish & even Morays which I am told always carry the toxin, strangely the Morays are safe to eat in the Phillipines. Perhaps the source of the poison depends on the location of the reef. Certainly a number of the Dominican reefs are dying after being smuthered by sewage-based sludge. I'm sure most restaurenteurs buy their supplies from deep sea sources. Canadian Bob.

How about fish from the river? Also why is it so many people still eat the fish?I see the guys spearfishing all the time on the north coast,boca chica and juan dolio then they sell them.Can all the fish be bad? I myself have eaten fried fish many times in the street and never had any problems.

Dear Keith, fresh water fish do not carry the ciguatoxin. Eating any fish living on a reef means you are gambling that the fish is not poisonous. The number of tourists getting ciguatera was so bad a few years ago that Canadian fisheries officials came down to DR to investigate. I don't know what the results of their study were. It is impossible to distinguish a fish carrying the poison from one that is not. Having personally seen tourists and residents with ciguatera I opt not to eat fish while I am in the RD for 4-5 months. No doubt the locals who eat every fish they catch get unlucky now & then. They say that if you put the fish on an anthill & the ants avoid walking on the eyes, the fish is poisonous. There is an (untrue) story that there is no ciguatoxin during certain months of the year. I sincerely hope you are lucky enough not to be poisoned. In Japan, the same toxin is present in "Fougou" (Puffer fish). Chefs are specially trained in removing most of the poisonous parts, but some 200 people a year still die from eating it. Canadian Bob.

What are the symptoms if one were to eat reef-poisoned fish so that some of us might recognize it should it happen, and how bad can it get? Is this life threatening? You say 200 die from it each year, but I'm not sure how that pans out statistically. Is there a cure if you get poisoned? What is the recommended treatment? How long do the affects of eating poisoned fish last?

I'm surprised to hear you believe it is prudent to avoid eating fish altogether in the DR since this is the first I've ever heard of such a danger.

Jim Hinsch JimHinsch@CSI.COM

Dear Jim - and everyone else interested in this matter:

A long description of ciguatera and some of the known cases can be found on the home page of Center for Disease Control: www.cdc.gov.

You can also look on the home page of the Food and Drug Administration. Address: vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/sea-ill.html

Or you can just go ahead and read the following (Warning: It is long but enlightening and quoting the above mentioned home page from FDA)

"Ciguatera 2. Name of Disease: Ciguatera Fish Poisoning Ciguatera is a form of human poisoning caused by the consumption of subtropical and tropical marine finfish which have accumulated naturally occurring toxins through their diet. The toxins are known to originate from several dinoflagellate (algae) species that are common to ciguatera endemic regions in the lower latitudes.

3. Nature of Disease: Manifestations of ciguatera in humans usually involves a combination of gastrointestinal, neurological, and cardiovascular disorders. Symptoms defined within these general categories vary with the geographic origin of toxic fish. 4. Normal Course of Disease: Initial signs of poisoning occur within six hours after consumption of toxic fish and include perioral numbness and tingling (paresthesia), which may spread to the extremities, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Neurological signs include intensified paresthesia, arthralgia, myalgia, headache, temperature sensory reversal and acute sensitivity to temperature extremes, vertigo, and muscular weakness to the point of prostration. Cardiovascular signs include arrhythmia, bradycardia or tachycardia, and reduced blood pressure. Ciguatera poisoning is usually self-limiting, and signs of poisoning often subside within several days from onset. However, in severe cases the neurological symptoms are known to persist from weeks to months. In a few isolated cases neurological symptoms have persisted for several years, and in other cases recovered patients have experienced recurrence of neurological symptoms months to years after recovery. Such relapses are most often associated with changes in dietary habits or with consumption of alcohol. There is a low incidence of death resulting from respiratory and cardiovascular failure. 5. Diagnosis of Human Illness: Clinical testing procedures are not presently available for the diagnosis of ciguatera in humans. Diagnosis is based entirely on symptomology and recent dietary history. An enzyme immunoassay (EIA) designed to detect toxic fish in field situations is under evaluation by the Association of Official Analytical Chemists (AOAC) and may provide some measure of protection to the public in the future. 6. Associated Foods: Marine finfish most commonly implicated in ciguatera fish poisoning include the groupers, barracudas, snappers, jacks, mackerel, and triggerfish. Many other species of warm-water fishes harbor ciguatera toxins. The occurrence of toxic fish is sporadic, and not all fish of a given species or from a given locality will be toxic. 7. Relative Frequency of Disease: The relative frequency of ciguatera fish poisoning in the United States is not known. The disease has only recently become known to the general medical community, and there is a concern that incidence is largely under-reported because of the generally non-fatal nature and short duration of the disease. 8. Target Population: All humans are believed to be susceptible to ciguatera toxins. Populations in tropical/subtropical regions are most likely to be affected because of the frequency of exposure to toxic fishes. However, the increasing per capita consumption of fishery products coupled with an increase in interregional transportation of seafood products has expanded the geographic range of human poisonings. 9. Analysis of Foods: The ciguatera toxins can be recovered from toxic fish through tedious extraction and purification procedures. The mouse bioassay is a generally accepted method of establishing toxicity of suspect fish. A much simplified EIA method intended to supplant the mouse bioassay for identifying ciguatera toxins is under evaluation. 10. Selected Outbreaks: Isolated cases of ciguatera fish poisoning have occurred along the eastern coast of the United States from south Florida to Vermont. Hawaii, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico experience sporadic cases with some regularity. A major outbreak of ciguatera occurred in Puerto Rico between April and June 1981 in which 49 persons were afflicted and two fatalities occurred. This outbreak prompted government officials of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico to ban the sale of barracuda, amberjack, and blackjack. In February-March of 1987 a large common-source outbreak of ciguatera occurred among Canadian vacationers returning from a Caribbean resort. Of 147 tourists, 61 ate a fish casserole shortly before departure, resulting in 57 identified cases of ciguatera.

In May of 1988 several hundred pounds of fish (primarily hogfish) from the Dry Tortuga Bank were responsible for over 100 human poisonings in Palm Beach County, Florida. The fish were sold to a seafood distributor after the fishermen (sport spearfishermen) themselves were first afflicted but dismissed their illness as seasickness and hangover. The poisonings resulted in a statewide warning against eating hogfish, grouper, red snapper, amberjack, and barracuda caught at the Dry Tortuga Bank. "

Regards, Susanne

I think I'll stick to Presidente and hamburgers

After having read about ciguaterra for years, I caught it myself when serving fish at a dinner at my house. I was the only of eight other people to get sick, so this proves that one part of the fish can be more intoxicating than others, and of course that some people are more susceptible. I didn't recognize having gotten the sickness, until the tingling sensation in my fingers and tongue, made me think I was probably having some nervous breakdown and I went to see my doctor, Dr. Antonio Grisanty. He immediately diagnosed what I had. This was two weeks after eating fish. I don't recall what he gave me, but I think his message was that I had to let it get out of my system, which would take a while. He also told me he had gotten ciguaterra five times and would not stop eating fish. I feel the same. My family frequently eats fresh fish, purchased from the supermarkets, or at restaurants, and I have been more fortunate than my doctor and have not had a repeat case of ciguaterra.

In our Health Page, we discuss the illness from a DR perspective.