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Thread: Patwa or Creole

  1. #1
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    Default Patwa or Creole

    My mom and I are having a bit of a disagreement. She insists that people that used to come from Haiti to cut sugar cane speak Patwa, were I assume that they speak Creole (after all isn't it Jamaicans that speak Patwa?) On all of the websites that I have looked at, I have found nothing to back up her claim...........
    Can anyone else provide any information,perhaps Hillbilly.

    Disagreement II

    What is the official language of the Dominican Republic? Spanish or Castilian. BTW, her "trick" question was when she asked me what the official language of RD was. When I said Spanish....she smiled and said it was Castilian. This is what she bases her conclusion that the "Haitianos que cortan cana (that is not an n it an ~n) hablan Patwa" on......( yeah I know, I am just as confused!)

    If possible answer before tonight prefered. I would be nice to eat dinner tonight .

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    These answers are all on Google, but let's give a hint here... if you search, use the word 'patois', and not the word 'patwa'

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    Well, I would have to say both of you guys are correct. We haitians speak creole which is a form of Patwa(haitian spelling) which is mostly based on the french language. The same goes for Dominicans who speak a patwa which is mostly based on spanish....An average dominican does not speak castellano rather Dominican spanish...Even the dominican that has a decent education from the best schools in DR doesn't speak castellano...Only spaniards speak Castellano....I hope this helps you out at dinner for tonight..


    BTW, haitians also speak proper french which is taught in school...depending on your class in society some will speak impeccable french or those not expose to french on a regular basis well mix it with creole..

    And don't forget that not all haitians come to DR to cut sugarcane but some are doctors, engineers, lawyers, and prominent businessmen...

    Quote Originally Posted by DOMIERICAN
    My mom and I are having a bit of a disagreement. She insists that people that used to come from Haiti to cut sugar cane speak Patwa, were I assume that they speak Creole (after all isn't it Jamaicans that speak Patwa?) On all of the websites that I have looked at, I have found nothing to back up her claim...........
    Can anyone else provide any information,perhaps Hillbilly.

    Disagreement II

    What is the official language of the Dominican Republic? Spanish or Castilian. BTW, her "trick" question was when she asked me what the official language of RD was. When I said Spanish....she smiled and said it was Castilian. This is what she bases her conclusion that the "Haitianos que cortan cana (that is not an n it an ~n) hablan Patwa" on......( yeah I know, I am just as confused!)

    If possible answer before tonight prefered. I would be nice to eat dinner tonight .

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    [QUOTE=Quisqueya]The same goes for Dominicans who speak a patwa which is mostly based on spanish....An average dominican does not speak castellano rather Dominican spanish...Even the dominican that has a decent education from the best schools in DR doesn't speak castellano...Only spaniards speak Castellano.[QUOTE]

    I agree with Quisqueya, except for the bit quoted above.

    Dominican Spanish is not a patois. Although Dominicans have a distinctive accent and some borrowed vocabulary from African, Taino and English languages, it is comprehensible to all Spanish speakers everywhere. The same cannot be said about Creole/Kreyol and French speakers. All the non-Haitian French speakers I know who have learned Creole/Kreyol have had to approach it as a new language. I can follow a conversation in French and even participate a little, but when it comes to Kreyol I can only identify a few words because they sound like their French counterparts. Creole/Kreyol and French are much farther apart than the form of Spanish spoken in the DR and the form of Spanish spoken in Castilla.

    The literal meaning of 'Castellano' is the Spanish spoken in Castilla (central Spain) but has now become synonymous with any sort of Spanish. Many Latin Americans refer to the language they speak as 'castellano', not 'español'. One such example is the Argentinians, whose Spanish is very different from the Spanish spoken in Castilla.

    In fact many Haitians would also say that Kreyol is not a patois, because they consider it a separate language.

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    [QUOTE=Quisqueya] The same goes for Dominicans who speak a patwa which is mostly based on spanish....An average dominican does not speak castellano rather Dominican spanish...Even the dominican that has a decent education from the best schools in DR doesn't speak castellano...Only spaniards speak Castellano....I hope this helps you out at dinner for tonight./QUOTE]


    "Castellano" is the official language of the Dominican Republic, and although it may be spoken with a different accent than in Castilla, as it is spoken differently in every country in Latin America or even region of spain.

    The word "Spanish" only indicates the "official language" of Spain and not a language per se. The dictator Franco made Castellano the obligatory language to use in all regions of spain despite the local languages that already exsited and were widley spoken; these are Catalan, Gallego, Vasco (euskadi) and Castellano.

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    Technically speaking all languages potentially have a "patois". Meaning a dialect that is regional to a specific area of a country or a country in general. That is the BIG misconception in general among those who have no prepared knowledge of language, etymology and linguistics. By definition "patois" means: n. a regional dialect used in informal everyday situations.
    As per language references a "patois" exist in the following Romance languages: Spanish, French and Italian. However, the term "dialect" as always been used instead when referring to the colloquial speech of countries where the above languages are spoken. For example: "cibaeño" by linguistic definition is a "patois" because of it's regional speech variations in comparison to the rest of República Dominicana.

    ¡Buen provecho!

    -Lesley D


    PD. Chirimoya,

    I am not sure of your references but as you know I don't mind sharing opinions but actually just this year in my last lingusitics class we studied dialects, patois, pidgins etc. and Spanish is considered one of the languages in the world to have a "patois".
    Last edited by Marianopolita; 12-08-2004 at 09:58 AM. Reason: ortografía

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    Chirimoya,

    By linguistic definition a "dialect" is only considered a separate language if it has a formal grammar particular to that language. As far as I know Creole does not have a formal grammar just word variations from the French which is the origin or basis of Haitian "creole".

    Entonces no importa lo que dice la gente.

    -Lesley D



    [QUOTE=Chirimoya][QUOTE=Quisqueya]The same goes for Dominicans who speak a patwa which is mostly based on spanish....An average dominican does not speak castellano rather Dominican spanish...Even the dominican that has a decent education from the best schools in DR doesn't speak castellano...Only spaniards speak Castellano.

    I agree with Quisqueya, except for the bit quoted above.

    Dominican Spanish is not a patois. Although Dominicans have a distinctive accent and some borrowed vocabulary from African, Taino and English languages, it is comprehensible to all Spanish speakers everywhere. The same cannot be said about Creole/Kreyol and French speakers. All the non-Haitian French speakers I know who have learned Creole/Kreyol have had to approach it as a new language. I can follow a conversation in French and even participate a little, but when it comes to Kreyol I can only identify a few words because they sound like their French counterparts. Creole/Kreyol and French are much farther apart than the form of Spanish spoken in the DR and the form of Spanish spoken in Castilla.

    The literal meaning of 'Castellano' is the Spanish spoken in Castilla (central Spain) but has now become synonymous with any sort of Spanish. Many Latin Americans refer to the language they speak as 'castellano', not 'español'. One such example is the Argentinians, whose Spanish is very different from the Spanish spoken in Castilla.

    In fact many Haitians would also say that Kreyol is not a patois, because they consider it a separate language.
    Last edited by Marianopolita; 12-08-2004 at 10:02 AM. Reason: no puedo escribir

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    As you probably know creole is derived from old french.

    Patwa is derived from patois, which meant language. Now patois in french means "local (regional) language".

    Haitians speak kreyol (creole). Now it is quite possible that Haitians use the word patwa, as kreyol is haiti's patwa.

    I'll ask one of my haitian customer,

    Barnabé

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    Lesley D, I bow to your superior knowledge!

    Going by those definitions Dominican Spanish is a patois and Haitian Creole is not.

    It's true that people (including myself) are hazy about the definitions of dialect, patois and pidgins - are they really interchangeable terms?

    Regional dialects in French (Picard, Provençal) and Italian (Ligurian/Genoese, Neapolitan etc) that are much more distinct from the main language than different forms of Spanish (spoken around Spain and Latin America) are from mainstream Spanish.

    I do not include Breton, Basque, Catalan and Galician as examples because they are separate languages. Their speakers strongly object to them being referred to as dialects of Spanish and French.
    Last edited by Chirimoya; 12-08-2004 at 10:09 AM.

  10. #10
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    In english people say they speak Creole , but in spanish they speak patios,

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