Metro defenders - answer these questions please

Chirimoya · #1 03-08-2006, 04:25 PM

Let's dream for a moment and imagine that this is something other than a cash-cow for corrupt officials.

I have some questions that may seem obvious to most, but they clearly need to be asked, because so far I haven't seen any convincing answers.

It's easy to say the Metro will alleviate traffic problems: but I would like to hear people explain how exactly this will happen.

- Is it aimed at people who already take public transport - conchos and guaguas?

If the answer is yes - that would be good, to eliminate those vehicles from the roads, but it's not that simple.

- Remember that no government has really had the guts to confront the transport unions - so what happens there?

- There were murmurs about giving union members jobs in the metro, but is that realistic?

- Will the cost of a ticket be competitive enough for non-car owners (existing public transport users) to choose the metro?

- Will the government have to subsidise the cost? Is the government able to do this?

(Remember that most if not all similar systems depend on subsidies - why should it be different here?)

- If the answer to any of the above is no, then what's the benefit going to be?

- Has the government done any studies on car-ownership patterns in the target commuter neighbourhoods? Any public surveys?

- Why was Villa Mella selected?

- Will car-owners from Villa Mella leave their cars at home and take the Metro instead?

- Why have they skipped the preliminary geological/structural investigation stage?

And the most obvious:

- What about the power cuts?

- Even if there were a convincing case for a mass-transit system, and I agree that there is - why has the most expensive option been chosen - an underground railway, with all the risks it entails in the light of the erratic power situation, the structural issues and geological risks?

Come on, let's have some qualified answers, and please keep them in the DR context.

Señor_Jimenez · #2 03-08-2006, 04:45 PM

You guys miss the point. Besides all the transportation issues that this will hopefully alleviate, its mostly about prestige. MODERNIZING the country. You think all that construction of all those modern towers along the Malecon and other areas is just for fun? ALL Economic indicators point to the fact that Santo Domingo's economy is getting better and better each year and will continue to do so. AS I said in the other thread LONG TERM. The metro will take YEARS to be fully operatable and accessbile for the masses. If you look at what's happening to the economy, by the time it's finally completed, the government (hopefully) will have the resources for the required subsidies. The question below however, is VERY valid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chirimoya

Let's dream for a moment and imagine that this is something other than a cash-cow for corrupt officials.

- What about the power cuts?

- Even if there were a convincing case for a mass-transit system, and I agree that there is - why has the most expensive option been chosen - an underground railway, with all the risks it entails in the light of the erratic power situation, the structural issues and geological risks?

Come on, let's have some qualified answers, and please keep them in the DR context.

As we speak there are daily negotiations about the future of the country's electricity sector which is among the most closely nitted and corrupt of all. An adminstration is never remembered in the present, they're remembered for the steps they took to send the country into prosperity. Although the metro faces many challenges, its no different than the challenges faced after Hippo. Can you recall for a moment as to the economic disaster this peasant caused to the country? We can continue pointing out the negatives and the positives of the project, but the only thing that will determine if this is a success is time and only that.

Chirimoya · #3 03-08-2006, 04:50 PM

That's just more empty rhetoric, which is not enough for anyone to base a minor business decision, let alone a multi-billion one like the metro. Next please!

HOWMAR · #4 03-08-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Señor_Jimenez

You guys miss the point. Besides all the transportation issues that this will hopefully alleviate, its mostly about prestige. MODERNIZING the country. You think all that construction of all those modern towers along the Malecon and other areas is just for fun? ALL Economic indicators point to the fact that Santo Domingo's economy is getting better and better each year and will continue to do so. AS I said in the other thread LONG TERM. The metro will take YEARS to be fully operatable and accessbile for the masses. If you look at what's happening to the economy, by the time it's finally completed, the government (hopefully) will have the resources for the required subsidies. The question below however, is VERY valid.

As we speak there are daily negotiations about the future of the country's electricity sector which is among the most closely nitted and corrupt of all. An adminstration is never remembered in the present, they're remembered for the steps they took to send the country into prosperity. Although the metro faces many challenges, its no different than the challenges faced after Hippo. Can you recall for a moment as to the economic disaster this peasant caused to the country? We can continue pointing out the negatives and the positives of the project, but the only thing that will determine if this is a success is time and only that.

And you're the guy that posted the following?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Señor_Jimenez

This so-called "Metro" will without a doubt be one of the most ridiculous and corruption infested projects ever to be initiated. I believe in America they call them "Pork Barrels."

Just wait and watch how many more BMW's, Benz's, Jeepetas, will be patrolling up and down the Malecon in the next few months to come. It'll surely help keep Santo Domingo as the top demographic in Latin America with the most Mercedes per capita.....oh well.

You might have a future in Dominican politics. The ability to play both sides of an issue.

Chirimoya · #5 03-08-2006, 04:59 PM

Well-spotted, HOWMAR. I wondered about this one from the start.

Señor_Jimenez · #6 03-08-2006, 05:50 PM

What I BELIEVE is completely different from the REALISTIC long-term goals. BTW in the passage I meant to write "ridiculously inflated.."

In reality ALL large scale, multi sub-contracted out government projects are cork barrels. I've seen financials of government projects in Listin Diario and from private aquaintances and you cannot convince me otherwise. This is true everywhere in the world.

Back to the Metro as an impartial observer... From a government point of view it's an opportunity to meet the needs and demands of 21st century Santo Domingo. A city with over 500 years of history, and a gorwing economy that with assute business skills and strategic location in the caribbean, has lots and lots of potential. However, I know a few politicians and they are more interested in press coverage and sharing their grandiouse plans than thinking about the logistics and complexities and the economic burdens these ideas will cost. What do I REALLY think? Not much because I really like speeding my Range Rover over there.

But a quick dose of reality. NONE of you, not one of you has any power to stop or change this project. You can say this and say that, but in reality it just sounds like bla bla bla bla. The adminstration has made up its mind and it has also made its bed. Now it must lay in it. But how cool would it be to be underground in the caribbean, in the oldest city in the west?

bienamor · #7 03-08-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Señor_Jimenez

But how cool would it be to be underground in the caribbean, in the oldest city in the west?

are the lights on or off? If the latter you may be there a while. you know until that part of the city gets power back 4hr's-8hr's.

Texas Bill · #8 03-08-2006, 05:59 PM

Not being intimately familiar with the Santo Domingo street orientation, the begining and ending points of the Metro, I really hesitate to comment on the system, good or bad, insofar as it's feasability to solve the transportation in the long run ( or, the short run for that matter).
Will someone please enlighten me as to WHERE the "begining" and the "ending" points are ( X-street, city map coordinates, or whatever.) ?
From such as that, it would/will be easy to plot out the locvation of government offices, Malls, Theaters, Supermercados, Etc., etc. Then, and only then can one identify whether or not such a system will truly benefit the society that needs it. Location of intermediate terminal/transfer points will make a huge difference in conveniences to the using public. Are these identified?
So, in order to make an intelligent "observation", one needs to have a great deal of substantive information---which we don't have at present--or, at least I can't find any.
Did I take my "dumb pills" this AM? No, but maybe I should use that as an excuse.
I'll be looking for some replys and alittle direction before posting again on the subject. Otherwise I might go off on a tangent and ruin the begining.

Texas Bill

Chirimoya · #9 03-08-2006, 06:05 PM

yes Sr. Jimenez, we've heard all the bluster.

If I were considering backing a business venture I'd show the applicant the door after the first

Quote:

hopefully.

What

Quote:

prestige

has there ever been in a white elephant?

Dolores · #10 03-08-2006, 06:09 PM

Villa Mella-Maximo Gomez was chosen because at that point the distance is the shortest north-south.

The power plant that will have to be purchased and installed for the metro is not contemplated in the original budget Diandino Peña has been using for the metro. That is a different project.