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  #1  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:34 PM
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Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 Hillbilly Level 8 (705)
Default Did anyone do the arithmatic??? OMG!!

Yesterday, ol' Leonel inaugurated his Metro. He allowed the press to print the fact that the "estimated cost" was for US$700 million.

Well, when you look at it like that, $700 million it does not look like much when Obama & Co are talking near the trillion mark.

But look at it like this: $700,000,000. D@mn! that is a chunk of change!!

Then you look at it like this (+/-) RD$243,000,000,000 and you say Holy shyte!!!

Especially when you realize that the budget for the whole freakin' years is RD$330,000,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the next story on the page is about how the hospital at Los Mina that has watched its annex stalled for 13 years while it is overflowing with patients.

This is a project that was so loudly criticized when it was announced that the Metro would cost RD$700-800 million PESOS!! just a few years ago. Every single step of the way was criticized for stupidity, poor planning, idiotic construction work, etc etc...When costs were "quesstimated" at RD$40 billion this was poo-pooed as being absurd....and spun some other direction....

Now we see that they admit, yes admit to a staggering sum in a country where kids are fed hogwash for "breakfast" where a band aid in a hospital is impossible to find, where schools are holding cells for kids for about 3 1/2 hours a day...

This is what happens in a poorly educated society, where each individual thinks with his/her stomach and not their poorly formed minds...It sure as he!! turns my stomach!!

This is why education is not supported....you can't cut ribbons with jocks scratching their ba!!s in front of the TV cameras (Pedro martinez and David Ortiz) at 200 high school graduations, and too many thinking people would kick his axx to kingdom come...

HB
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:44 PM
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Thandie Level 4 Thandie Level 4 Thandie Level 4 Thandie Level 4 (317)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly View Post
This is what happens in a poorly educated society, where each individual thinks with his/her stomach and not their poorly formed minds...It sure as he!! turns my stomach!!

This is why education is not supported....you can't cut ribbons with jocks scratching their ba!!s in front of the TV cameras (Pedro martinez and David Ortiz) at 200 high school graduations, and too many thinking people would kick his axx to kingdom come...
HB
Yes, Amen, I believe, Preach It...Hillbilly!
As we have seen in other countries, throughout history...
many goverments want to keep their people uneducated and therefore powerless!
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2009, 11:29 PM
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catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 (1155)
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"As we have seen in other countries, throughout history...
many goverments want to keep their people uneducated and therefore powerless!"


Yup. This has come up many times in the past, and it remains true now.

The question that should be asked when looking for solutions is, Cui bono? Who benefits?

When education is neglected and schools are falling apart, when students walk away from 8-9 years of school not knowing how to read or write and the literacy rate is abysmal and perhaps getting worse, when much of the population lacks the means to improve their condition and the only employment options are prostitution, thievery, and seeking handouts, who benefits?
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:15 AM
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PICHARDO Level 4 PICHARDO Level 4 PICHARDO Level 4 PICHARDO Level 4 (349)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly View Post
Yesterday, ol' Leonel inaugurated his Metro. He allowed the press to print the fact that the "estimated cost" was for US$700 million.

Well, when you look at it like that, $700 million it does not look like much when Obama & Co are talking near the trillion mark.

But look at it like this: $700,000,000. D@mn! that is a chunk of change!!

Then you look at it like this (+/-) RD$243,000,000,000 and you say Holy shyte!!!

Especially when you realize that the budget for the whole freakin' years is RD$330,000,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the next story on the page is about how the hospital at Los Mina that has watched its annex stalled for 13 years while it is overflowing with patients.

This is a project that was so loudly criticized when it was announced that the Metro would cost RD$700-800 million PESOS!! just a few years ago. Every single step of the way was criticized for stupidity, poor planning, idiotic construction work, etc etc...When costs were "quesstimated" at RD$40 billion this was poo-pooed as being absurd....and spun some other direction....

Now we see that they admit, yes admit to a staggering sum in a country where kids are fed hogwash for "breakfast" where a band aid in a hospital is impossible to find, where schools are holding cells for kids for about 3 1/2 hours a day...

This is what happens in a poorly educated society, where each individual thinks with his/her stomach and not their poorly formed minds...It sure as he!! turns my stomach!!

This is why education is not supported....you can't cut ribbons with jocks scratching their ba!!s in front of the TV cameras (Pedro martinez and David Ortiz) at 200 high school graduations, and too many thinking people would kick his axx to kingdom come...

HB
Ok! Let's talk Arithmetic...

The SD Metro cost to construct was over US$699 million and less than $700 million. (the facts)

The Line 1 of the SD Metro included the command and control center for the entire "system" not only Line 1, but all other Lines already projected and on table to continue to expand it. This includes the parking/maintenance/tooling/etc... depot at the end of the Line, which will serve all the train sets that will make up the expanded SD Metro once finito.

The cost figure includes the command and control center for the entire system as well as including the software servers for the fully capable automated trains, emergency back up systems, fire control systems, security audio/video terminals with an AI unit to later be expanded, communication control modules, power control panels, water pump controls, air monitoring center, tunnel ventilation control center, 911 internal switch board, etc...

These additional costs are a one time need as future lines to be added, only required the infrastructure to be built and not the support systems as detailed.

Now what that means?
It means that the costs related to Line 1 go beyond what you should expect of any other additional lines to later be built.

Now all that talk about why not spend this money in education, etc...

The money for the SD Metro came from foreign banks that wouldn't give a rat's as* abou the education budget in the DR, nor would they make the loans at any time for that purpose! This is a capital project, meaning to be able to pay back for the loans itself. The train costs, hardware, software, rail systems, communications, train cars, etc... were financed via the same financial systems that support their manufacturers. Which means that unless you buy from this or that company, the funds loaned could be or not there for you to shop around.

The SD is the best thing to ever happen to the DR, just as the voladoras and rusting cans on wheels yesterday provided, they lowered their fares by even as much as 50% and still, people preferred to wake up an hour later and yet arrive at work with plenty of time left and safer than the syndicated transporter's have ever offered.

The SD Metro was built at record time and cost per km of construction, something that's not escaping the minds of the "super well educated" first word countries and others in development by a long shot...

It still hurts the eyes of a many to see the "most" advanced Metro system in the western hemisphere in a little poor country like the DR and that the little educated people could achieve it, at record time and under cost to ANY comparable technologically advanced Metro system in the word. Period!

Made by Dominicans for Dominicans... Period!

A WTC totally private by Dominicans for the home markets and all of LA first and foremost... Period!

As for you education complaints, just wait quietly and you'll be witness to the most advanced Educational system in the world, using 21st century technologies like no other public education system in our hemisphere of the other... Period!

Just as I told you:
Every single province will have its own international airport to link the entire national territory with air taxi.
Metro services in every big metropolitan city developing.
HVT (high velocity trains *250 km/hr average) to link all major cities.
An island-wide communication network able to support 4g and 5g expansion for the foreseeable future, while providing free wifi to students everywhere.
Electronic currency in the country for all commercial transactions while utilizing the most traded and accepted currencies over the links.
A biometric ID system that will be good for all things, including international travel.


Major changes...

BTW: If you still haven't become a DR's citizen yet, believe me and do it sooner; the requirements to become a DR's citizen will become a lot different from nowadays...

When I told you very well situated Dominicans were returning to the country for good, you have no idea of how influential and resourceful these people are... Even those with a few droplets of Dominicanism just b/c they were born in the country, are ardently following big projects to be unveiled soon to the news when the time is right...

Think projects the size of entire cities and even an amusement park that could rival and surpass that of Disney's in Orlando FL. Hint: The amusement park site is now being deep scanned with radar, if you can spot the work in the air, you'll get the idea of the site and size of the project...

Another hint? A Dominican that's little known by the media, is just about commit to a huge project together with some Sheiks from the land of the sands... Big! Very big!


Hillbilly let me know which foreign bank loans money to fund education systems anywhere in the world? Which is that financial institution that provides funds to build Hospitals for the poor at long term rates for repayment?

I told you about the changes to the electrical theft problems affecting our grid. Wait and see how things change soon in the DR and how the people that really need a hand to get the services do get the aid directly.

Change is happening but don't expect all problems affecting our nation, to be solved overnight by using a magic wand and some magic spell...

Aren't you just content with hearing of the changes developing in the DR, here on DR1 before hand and advanced notice to discuss the merits behind them?

Hillbilly, even if the train drivers decided to form an union and strike later for better wages, the train system in use here is the most advanced Metro available today to any country. It can operate w/o anybody at the driver's seat! Just one person behind the command center can provide the AI systems the parameters to run on a FULLY AUTOMATED MODE!!!

That's an ace in the hole for the later to be at the control authority of the Metro system.

Be positive for a change and instead offer constructive criticism of the system, so that it can be made even better that it's today! Have you taken a ride on the Metro yet? If not please do so and then come back here to post your impressions when comparing it to other known systems you rode before!

I a country were people are targeted to steal their guns away, even police officers are targeted, why would switching to smart weapons be wrong or a waste of money from your POV?

Let's debate things w/o being carried away by the ethos or lack thereof in our society and present political system. Politics are not a subject even the role model of our skewed model is based on, can be said to be able to have any control over after over 200+ years of it...

Let's be adults and apolitical about the subjects we take on and not dump the issues, while casting such a wide net when using the present educational model to call for even more funding to a problem that's beyond redemption here.

Even the most looked after metropolis in the world (NYC) is dealing with abysmal results in their educational model in use; they're actively engaged in scrapping it altogether in favor of a comparable model, like they one we seek for our nation.

Talk to me!
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:59 AM
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MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 MikeFisher Level 7 (578)
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and my sis told me it is just 20 pesos for the full city ride, that means effordable.
how is it run in case of ownership?
are the maintenance costs paid by the partnership of the financing parties or is there any kind of subcidy to be paid by the gubmin to keep the rates low?
just curious, 20 pesos is a great deal for a passenger, here in punta cana you pay 30 pesos as the minimum to do the shortest available ride on a guagua.
Mike
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2009, 12:04 PM
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bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 (323)
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Nice long post but still doesn't explain why the DR does commit the correct amount to education. This has nothing to do with foreign loans- Education is paid for out of taxes.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2009, 12:27 PM
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PICHARDO Level 4 PICHARDO Level 4 PICHARDO Level 4 PICHARDO Level 4 (349)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeFisher View Post
and my sis told me it is just 20 pesos for the full city ride, that means effordable.
how is it run in case of ownership?
are the maintenance costs paid by the partnership of the financing parties or is there any kind of subcidy to be paid by the gubmin to keep the rates low?
just curious, 20 pesos is a great deal for a passenger, here in punta cana you pay 30 pesos as the minimum to do the shortest available ride on a guagua.
Mike
As of now, the fares are $20 pesos to entice people to use the system. As the rider ship continues to grow and meets the minimum numbers to provide for steady revenue, where the system can be self sufficient (projected around 200,000 daily riders to cover and surpass the costs of operations; the SD Metro will then be $25 pesos.

There'll be a semi public-private partnership on the Metro system (the entire full extended one, not the present only Line), where the gov will have a participatory share of the responsibilities where security, loan guarantees and public access via low to no cost to students programs it refers to.

Once daily rider ship hits the 200,000 the Metro can more than pay for its own operational expenses and provide considerable revenues. That's without even taking under consideration the revenues from commercial space rentals, ads placement within the system, in the train cars' monitors, audio, phone/internet services underground, pay phones, etc...

Also the Metro system of the DR envisions becoming a certified training ground for personnel of other countries in LA seeking to establish the same kind of Metro system as ours in their countries. The DR is looking to partner with the SD Metro system's providers to use it as a working model to interested buyers.

The biggest expense for the SD Metro system happens to be energy consumed, but once the DFR implements the program to produce renewable energy sources in the country, the costs will be reduced in a huge scale accordingly. Think a whole lot!!!!

There are several interested parts in taking over the Metro operations and lucrative income, the DR as of now lacks the legal framework to allow for that part of the negotiations to take place. Once Line 2 gets under way, the legal framework should be ready to go...

Several investment models are being studied to that end...
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2009, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bob saunders View Post
Nice long post but still doesn't explain why the DR does commit the correct amount to education. This has nothing to do with foreign loans- Education is paid for out of taxes.
B/C dumping more money than we should, just to scrap the whole model once the new one rolls out, is plain waste...

I told you how many times already?????

The model in use today is DOA, kaput! Finito, at the End of the Line!

History! A relic! A left over from the industrial revolution introduced to the developing countries of today as the future to invest on, while the developed and first world countries are underway to abandon it...

Why debate a carcass when we have a newborn on the way?????
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2009, 01:22 PM
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bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 bob saunders Level 4 (323)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PICHARDO View Post
B/C dumping more money than we should, just to scrap the whole model once the new one rolls out, is plain waste...

I told you how many times already?????

The model in use today is DOA, kaput! Finito, at the End of the Line!

History! A relic! A left over from the industrial revolution introduced to the developing countries of today as the future to invest on, while the developed and first world countries are underway to abandon it...

Why debate a carcass when we have a newborn on the way?????
You have very little knowledge when it comes to what works for both teaching and learning. Your state of the art virtual education system will remain just that for many years- a virtual reality- not real.
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2009, 01:34 PM
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catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 catcherintherye Level 9 (1155)
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Why debate a carcass when we have a newborn on the way?????
Pichardo

Your state of the art virtual education system will remain just that for many years- a virtual reality- not real.

Bob Saunders

How would improving what exists now be a waste? As Bob pointed out, whatever this new system is, and whenever it actually gets on line, has no relevance to what is being spent on education now.

In fact, it only serves as an excuse for not doing something to improve education for many thousands of kids right now, while those in charge spin their wheels trying to bring this 'new' model on line.

In the best case scenario, this miracle of pedagogy will take years, perhaps 5 or more, to get up and running. What happens to the present crop of students in the meantime?

The biggest waste I see is the wasted potential of today's students.
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