Help with le, lo, la

[Syrita]

Hello,
I know this might seem extremely easy for most of you but for some reason le, lo and la confuses me and i need a little help. For example:

lo amo - i love him (why not le?)
la adoro - i love/adore her
le dije - i told her/him (why not la/lo?)

Could someone please explain the difference and when to use them correctly.
Thanks!

[GForce209]

I think it is because lo and la are direct pronouns whereas le is an indirect pronoun. When you say I love her, the verb "love" refers to "her" But when you say I "told" "him" you are implying you told "something" to him and that something would be the direct pronoun while "him" is the indirect pronoun. That explination maybe more confusing then your question but I hope it helps. (I also hope its right.

[Syrita]

Originally Posted by GForce209

I think it is because lo and la are direct pronouns whereas le is an indirect pronoun. When you say I love her, the verb "love" refers to "her" But when you say I "told" "him" you are implying you told "something" to him and that something would be the direct pronoun while "him" is the indirect pronoun. That explination maybe more confusing then your question but I hope it helps. (I also hope its right.

GForce
Yes, that helps me. So "le" is only used for indirect pronouns. Breaking it down by direct vs. indirect helped me understand it better. Thanks!!
Syrita

[Lesley D]

Direct object pronouns- replace nouns that answer the question 'what'- lo/ la can refer to a person, an object, a thing etc.

Indirect object pronouns- are used with certain verbs that take an indirect object pronoun and answer the question 'to whom or for whom' an action is intended.

Le= is an 'indirect object pronoun' (masc. and fem) used to refer to (and replace) indirect objects. (Be careful what you said below is incorrect).

Lo/La= are direct object pronouns that are used to refer to (and replace) direct objects in a phrase.

Certain verbs in Spanish require an indirect object pronoun only thus [le] can only be used and not [lo] or [la]. Some verbs can take an indirect and a direct object pronoun.

For example you referenced the verb decir. Decir can take both object pronouns depending on what you want to say. In the dictionary they usually expand the meaning- Decir (algo a alguien). Algo can be replaced by [lo] and alguien can be replaced by [le].

I told him= Le dije

I told him (algo)= Se lo dije

Se lo dije ('le' becomes 'se' because in Spanish two pronouns together that begin with the same letter for phonetic reasons is not permitted. Le lo dije is agrammatical thus Se lo dije is correct. You may hear that incorrect form used by kids who eventually learn the correct way or used by those who are learning how to speak Spanish).

Another classic verb with [le] is Dar. It is governed by the same logic as Decir. In the dictionary you will see the full form Dar (algo a alguien). Algo= lo and alguien =le.


Indirect object pronouns present the most difficulty and the area of confusion for you maybe that some people use [le] when they should use [lo] or [la] this is called "leísmo" and also the usage of these pronouns with some verbs is regional (differs from country to country).

In Spanish some incorrect forms are now acceptable (I won't get into the exceptions) but for example with verbs like llamar, ayudar and conocer you may hear both the direct and the indirect pronoun used.

For example- Voy a ayudarle or Voy a ayudarlo. (Purely regional usage. My suggestion is to use what you were taught or consult the dictionary. I have my preference but I won't impose it on you).


LDG.

Buena suerte.

Originally Posted by Syrita

GForce
Yes, that helps me. So "le" is only used for indirect pronouns. Breaking it down by direct vs. indirect helped me understand it better. Thanks!!
Syrita

[Syrita]

Thanks for the helpful info LDG!

[Uzin]

Thanks from me too, I was getting quite frustrated about "ayudarle". According to my grammer book that should be "ayudarlo or ayudarla" !? I was coming to the decision that Spanish people may be thinking of "Helping somebody" differently !?!? Maybe thinking "somebody" was the indirect object..... ???

Now I see this is basically an exeption (or perhaps acceptable grammer mistake !), do they still use "ayudarlo or ayudarla" in some places ?

[xamaicano]

Leísmo annoys me.

[Lesley D]

It's nice to see this thread resurface again.

The usage of le/lo (indirect object pronoun vs. direct object pronoun) to refer to "him" varies in the Spanish- speaking world. The usage of one or the other is considered regional and accepted in most grammars however, from a grammatical perspective there is a clear distinction. When I read your comment I did a quick survey with my peers. After asking eight people "how would you say I helped him", four of my coworkers said "le ayudé" and the other four said "lo ayudé".

Please note that leísmo (when replacing lo with le) usually goes uncontested however, when it replaces "la" it's considered a grammatical error. Xamaicano you mentioned that "leísmo" annoys you don't let it because the usage is very widespread and many will tell you adamantly it's "le ayudé". What I believe is important is that you know the grammatical rule as it stands and recognizing when "leísmo" is used will most likely influence the way you speak. In Latin America there is no set trend and out of the speakers I just asked the four who said "lo ayudé" are from Venezuela and Peru. The other four are from Colombia and Bolivia.

The problem stems from understanding pronoun differentiation and "leísmo" according to linguists and philologists goes back centuries in the Spanish language. If you really are interested start from the root Latin and having branched out into four different languages compare the pronoun usage, indirect and direct object pronouns in French, Italian, Portuguese and Spanish. This type of grammatical comparison always lends perspective.


-LDG.

[rolfdog]

I have read and learned that le/les is used when referring to people and lo/los when referring to objects.

Le veo a Pedro. I see him.

Lo veo el carro. I see the car.

This might explain some of it or make it more confusing. Any comments Lesley?

[Lesley D]

What is your source? Hopefully not from a grammar book. If it's a grammar text book of reputable quality I would be surprised that the pronoun explanation is so simplified and that it does not have footnotes or additional comments (?) about regional usage based on your examples. Le/les (indirect object pronouns) can replace people or objects, lo, la, los, las (direct object pronouns) can replace people or objects. Grammar textbooks usually cover the topic of pronouns in depth- subject pronouns, direct/ indirect object, reflexive and prepositional pronouns etc.

Le veo is an example of leísmo. I see him- "him" is a direct object therefore the correct pronoun is "lo". However, le veo is considered standard usage in Spain therefore you will hear and see it written. Some advanced textbooks go into depth about this grammar concept and controversy. Also keep in mind leísmo is only common with certain verbs in Spanish and not to be confused with verbs that truly take an indirect object such as gustar, encantar, corresponder etc.

I like to use newspapers as an example when explaining indirect/ direct object pronouns to show everyday usage from speakers of different areas. Choose sample articles from a few popular Spanish-speaking papers, perhaps one from each region- Caribbean, Central America, South America, Spain and Mexico and pay close attention to the choice of pronouns and you will see a broad range of usage. For example I read (not in full) certain sections of various papers daily and I can always see grammatical differences from paper to paper most are regional nuances, some are acceptable erroneous grammatical forms and some have mistakes.

If you know what the direct and indirect object pronouns are in Spanish (listed above) and understand their grammatical functions you should be able to use them correctly then analyzing grammatical exceptions such as leísmo, loísmo and laísmo can be studied. However, it's always recommended to use the correct grammatical forms when learning Spanish and any language.

That's all I will comment on since the first step is really understanding the function of each type of pronoun and the second step is using them correctly. Regionalisms should not be adopted by those who are learning the language. I also recommend a reputable grammar book if you are not using one already.



-LDG.